Author Topic: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana  (Read 8829 times)

ramana_maharshi

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There is a troubling report that at his first visit to Ramana, Muruganar was administered a hallucinogenic.

Muruganar reported the following to Narasimha in 1930:

Two or three days after my arrival I was given some medicine. I do not know what it was, but it excited me and overpowered me. I sat in front of the Maharshi and concentrated my mind on his person. After a few minutes I had a vision of brightness.

It was a suffused brightness all over his body and around it. The body was, however, distinct from the surrounding light. How long it lasted I do not know, so wholly lost was I in contemplating the vision. Kunju Swami, Dandapani Swami and Arunachala Swami were present while this was going on.

Maharshi then appeared to me as Christ, for what reason I cannot say, and again as Mohammed and other great souls for similarly inexplicable reasons. I lost my former personality during this period, for it was submerged and lost in a huge ocean wave of a new state of spirituality.

I was feeling that all my experience was dream-like, vague, insubstantial, and mysterious, in spite of the feeling that I was still in the waking condition. I was obsessed by this fear that my former worldly waking state was being smothered and my former self plundered of its sense of reality and individuality. I felt that as a consequence I might be perpetually held down to this strange life in Tiruvannamalai and be forever lost to my mother whose sole support I was.

Sources:

1) http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc102b.htm
2) Paul Brunton and Ramana Maharshi by Dr. J. Glenn Friesen Book


ramana_maharshi

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 05:27:40 PM »
Dear All,

I have mailed David Godman regarding what exactly is this medicine about and i will let you all know once i know more details.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 06:29:03 PM »

Dear prasanth,


It may or may not be true.  There were no such medicines available
in Tiruvannamalai or even Madras at that time.  The pleasant incident that took place was when Muruganar met Bhagavan Ramana with his song, from Desika Padigam [in Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai]. He wrote it at the Temple, after seeing Annamalai and Unnamulai and like a poet who goes to the King with a poem [that is all, a poor poet could afford those days] he went with that poem.  But he could not read even one line in the magnificent Presence of Bhagavan Ramana.  Imagine, he is a great Tamizh scholar!  This scholar stood like a school boy, who is not able to read even one line of a poem, before the Teacher.  Bhagavan Ramana then said: "Enna Oye, padikka kazhtama?  Why is there difficulty in reading?" He then pulled the paper and read the poem on Himself, Himself!  This is the first song starting Par valar kayilai....

Meaning:

"Leaving the Kailash which protects the whole world, You came down to Tiruperundurai, to listen to the melodious songs on that day.  Now you have come to Tiruvannamalai, to listen to my songs!"

Bhagavan Ramana after reading, asked : Oye, Neer Manikkavachagar pol ezhuthuveero?  Oye, you will write like
Manikkavachagar?

This prophecy came true.  All Muruganar's poem in Sri Ramana
Sannidhi Murai, are modelled like the poems of Tiruvachakam and Tirukovaiyar.   

It does not matter, if Muruganar has taken some hallucinogens.
Bhagavan Ramana was also given a good lump of ganga when He
was there in Skandasramam. 

Arunachala Siva.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 11:20:28 PM »
Dear All,

David Godman replied and below is his reply.


Quote
This was a story that Muruganar narrated to B. V. Narasimhaswami. I found it in the notes he left behind at Ramanasramam. In the 1920s many of the sadhus who associated with Bhagavan took ganja, even though Bhagavan disapproved, and told them so. I think it is possible that Muruganar was given something that other sadhus were also taking, and that he was either not used to it or had a bad reaction to it.

Best Wishes    David Godman

Subramanian.R

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 09:46:34 AM »

Dear prasanth,


I am happy that the question is settled.  When Bhagavan Ramana
had taken once [only once] ganja, His eyes became bloodshot and
His Mother who was there, at that time with Him, was worried.
But Bhagavan Ramana never went unconscious, or slept, but was
simply sitting in His usual posture in Skandasramam.

Later after some years, once Annamalai Swami asked Bhagavan
Ramana how it would be if one takes ganja.  Bhagavan Ramana,
who was about to go for bath [and Annamalai Swami was nearby]
embraced Annamalai Swami and said:  Anandam, Anandam!
This made Annamalai Swami to have feeling of shock and indescribable state of bliss for some minutes!

Arunachala Siva.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 12:34:25 PM »
nice question udai garu.

This is the very reason why i posted this controversial post.

We people go to arunachalam in firm belief of bhagavan and thinking that everyone living there in arunachalam are so nice people and all sadhu's are god incarnation .... BLA BLA BLAH..

Please please be careful if anyone of us are serious to settle down at any ashram.

Recently in A.P they caught hold of fake swami Kalki Bhagavan who it seems is giving some ganja type of liquid and disciples including ladies are having some divine type of experience and they were cheated.

I almost got tears watching in TV seeing the state those disciples were especially ladies.

Thank god ramana ashramam is out of this business and having clean chit.

WESTERN DEVOTEES PLEASE BE CAREFUL OF RAPE/MURDER WHICH CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE IN INDIA AND ARUNACHALAM IS NO EXCEPTION AND BEWARE OF THIS GANJA BUSINESS AND FAKE SADHUS.


« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 12:40:14 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 12:59:22 PM »

Ganga was freely planted and the leaves taken in those days.
I think in post Independent India, it is banned.  Nevertheless
it may be still available with some tribes living in hill areas.

Arunachala Siva.

SLakshmi

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 03:57:05 PM »
I dont know about ganja...if its a drug or not..but in the north, even till today during holi time i hear that people have something called 'bhang'. Infact it is a very famous drink in varnasi and i have seen episodes where some of these food travellers have gone and shown the recipe of this 'bhang' drink being made!

Where ever there is this mystical/spiritual atmoshphere i guess the so called 'sadhakas' resort to such practises..perhaps this is the only thing that gives them something close to being 'spiritual'..


matthias

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 05:36:52 PM »
I took a hallucinogens when I was 15 and 16 years old, I also had a near dead expereince, where the world and body conciousness is totally destroyed....I guess it was nirvikalpa samadhi, afterwards all sense of my self was gone and I felt that everything I percieve is my kingdom....and that Iam in fact god, it was totally obvious...I felt like jesus christ for a day or two...

it was very strange, but it had no real positiv meaning.....it was in a way a spiritual experience, but at the other hand Iam not a buddha because I took it...

so today I dont take any drugs, and I learned that experience and realisation are 2 totally different things...

anyway I know of tantric masters who say that this kind of drugs can damage the sublte bodies and nadis and should not be used by sadhaks...because the energetic body begins to vibrate in a higher order then in your natural state and thus during the "trip" the subtle energetic system can be damaged.

when you highten your awereness through meditation it is a natural procedure...not superimposed from outside...


matthias

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 06:47:32 PM »
I tried to say the same :D


amiatall

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »
I had an opportunity to read and discuss in various festivals on ethnogens as seen in the context of religion.
Fungus and other hallucinogens were used in distant past by various tribes and religions, but they had their own purposes. Another way of exploring consciousness. [But it just it - still staying in the dream.]
There was one man by the name Terrence McKenna (American author, public speaker, metaphysician, psychonaut, philosopher and so on), he was experimenting with various hallucinogens, when asked about meditation, he said that these two things are of different domains, but hallucinogens can be a great enhancer of mantras and so on. The greatest and most profound experience he had was with DMT (a molecule which human brain produces itself and which can be found in some plants) total change of perception etc. It was known that tibetian monks had such a practice to sit in black room for a week. What was going on exactly is that after fifth day of darkness, brain started to produce more DMT, thus enabling various spiritual experiences and bringing various powers of mind from within. You know, it is the same as with flowering, night(darkness) is the time for it.

There was another guy Richard Alpert, Ph.D., professor of psychology (Later known as Ram Dass). Was experimenting with LSD, another hallucinogen Hoffman developed.
Some story:

"In 1967 when I first came to India, I brought with me a supply of LSD, hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West. When I had met Maharajji(Neem Karoli Baba), after some days the thought had crossed my mind that he would be a perfect person to ask.

The next day after having that thought, I was called to him and he asked me immediately, "Do you have a question?"
Of course, being before him was such a powerful experience that I had completely forgotten the question I had had in my mind the night before. So I looked stupid and said, "No, Maharajji, I have no question."
He appeared irritated and said, "Where is the medicine?"
I was confused but Bhagavan Dass suggested,
"Maybe he means the LSD." I asked and Maharajji nodded. The bottle of LSD was in the car and I was sent to fetch it. 

Then he held out his hand for the LSD. I put one pill on his palm.
Each of these pills was about three hundred micrograms of very pure LSD-
-a solid dose for an adult. He beckoned for more, so I put a second pill in his hand--six hundred micrograms. Again he beckoned and I added yet another, making the total dosage 900 micrograms--certainly not a dose for beginners. Then he threw all the pills into his mouth. My reaction was one of shock mixed with fascination of a social scientist eager to see what would happen. He allowed me to stay for an hour--

and nothing happened.

Nothing whatsover.
He just laughed at me.

The whole thing had happened very fast and unexpectedly. When I returned to the United States in 1968 I told many people about this acid feat. But there had remained in me a gnawing doubt that perhaps he had been putting me on and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn't actually seen them go into his mouth.

Three years later, when I was back in India,
he asked me one day, "Did you give me medicine when you were in India last time?"
"Yes."
"Did I take it?" he asked. ( Ah, there was my doubt made manifest!)
"I think you did."
"What happened?
"Nothing."
"Oh! Jao!" and he sent me off for the evening.

The next morning I was called over to the porch in front of his room, where he sat in the mornings on a tucket. He asked, "Have you got any more of that medicine?"
It just so happened that I was carrying a small supply of LSD for "just in case," and this was obviously it. "Yes." - "Get it," he said. So I did. In the bottle were five pills of three hundred micrograms each. One of the pills was broken. I placed them on my palm and held them out to him. He took the four unbroken pills. Then, one by one, very obviously and very deliberately, he placed each one in his mouth and swallowed it-- another unspoken thought of mine now answered.

After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening?
Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the "medicine" really was.
Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch. At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had been a total put-on. And then he asked,
"Have you got anything stronger?" I didn't. Then he said, "These medicines were used in Kulu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now. To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others would would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this." And he left it at that.



Subramanian.R

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 10:07:59 AM »

Dear amiatall,

Nice and exciting story.  If drugs, of any type, could help god-
realization, why then all these teachings, gurus and so on?
The drugs may at best give a "feel" of elation for some time,
and it does not take us beyond.

Arunchala Siva.     

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 11:28:02 AM »
well said Subramanian garu.

Guru ramana says

Awareness is necessary for mind control; otherwise who is to make the effort? You cannot make it in sleep or under the influence of drugs. Also mukti has to be gained in full awareness, because the Reality itself is pure awareness.


Subramanian.R

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 04:18:48 PM »



Drugs, of any kind, whether it is dimethyl thalate, or Lysergic acid
diethyl amide, or even the local varieties [which are not banned but obtained with a prescription] like lorazepam and alprozalam, gives only a state of false elation or a sense of stupor, but it does not make you to enquire.  The idea was to drive the unwanted thoughts away.  But it makes the whole mind clouded with stupor or a sense of semi-consciousness.  Ganja is also of that type.  None of these help self enquiry. 

Arunachala Siva.

amiatall

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Re: Strange Incident Happened For Muruganar's First Visit to Ramana
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 06:32:55 PM »
Dear Subramanian.R,

Yes I agree.
These hallucinogens were not available so publicly in the past. Only "saints of highest order" used them for curing or for seeing future.
Yet another tool, it can expand consciousness, i.e. letting see things from different perspective, but again it is just it - scientific,specific object/tool.

When we "came" to Ramana, almost instantly or maybe a bit later, everyone had to come to realize that here we are not after certain thoughts(good,bad), moods, personal upliftment, we are not after certain worlds(paradises,hells), we are not after dimensions(5,6,7..), heck, we are not even after states of consciousness.
We are after the truth:

Christ:
"...the Truth will set you free..."