Author Topic: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...  (Read 5575 times)

Nagaraj

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A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« on: July 26, 2010, 07:50:28 PM »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramanaduli

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 09:32:58 PM »
Dear Nagaraj ji,

Nice picture with true meaning. It is said, the people who go to the burial ground all will get jnana Seeing the dead body everyone for a second think, nothing is real in this world. This realisation is called samsana vairagiyam. As soon as they leave
that place they will forget all jnana and they start fight each other for money etc. etc. But true seeker never
forget forever.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 06:26:22 AM »

Dear Nagaraj,

An excellent picture with a nice brief conversation.

Everyone has got this Smasana Vairagyam and Prasava Vairagyam.
A relative who goes to the cremation ground to attend to the cremation ceremonies ponders for sometime about the futility of this world and janma.  He makes immediate proposals within him, that he should do good in the world, should not cheat people etc..,  He makes a quick decision to live honestly and with piety towards God. But this does not last for long.  As soon as he comes home, he takes bath and asks his wife whether lunch is ready.  If the wife says, lunch is not ready, he gets angry and shouts.  Then, he eats his lunch and lies down thinking, "how can I recover my loan from the
sons of the deceased?" 

So also Prasava Vairagyam, a housewife, after the gruelling pains
before delivering the child thinks:  "I should not become a mother
again!  What a misery and pain!  I should not accept union with my
husband."   But this sankalpa does not long.  Within another 3 years,
she becomes pregnant again. [at least in those years.].  Today,
educated housewives are different.  They follow the policy - No
children, only sex.

Bhagavan Ramana used to give a nice interpretation to these cremation ground emotions.  He has said:  Why does a man not think about death and dying for long?  Because he knows inwardly that
he is deathless. "I-I" is eternal.  Only the body dies and gets burnt. 


Arunachala Siva.   

kde

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 12:14:56 PM »
Why does Bhagavan Ramana use "I-I"?

Why not "I".

ramana_maharshi

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 12:37:45 PM »
Dear Kde,

I suggest you to read David Godman's explanation regarding this.

http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/iandii1.shtml

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 01:33:51 PM »

Dear kde,

The word "I" means the 'I thought'.  It is the first thought of the mind, which sprouts as "I".  'I thought' is the ego.  This is the first thought that jumps out in a person, which will then manifest as, 'I shall do this', 'I shall do that', 'I shall give nice thrashing to my computer operator, who typed the letter with a lot of mistakes', 'I shall shout  my wife who prepares over salted food', etc., etc.,

Bhagavan Ramana uses the word "Naan" in Tamizh.

This I thought or 'I' will curl back into the Self within and then shine
as "I-I" or "I,I" upon successful completion of self enquiry and eventual self realization.  This "I-I" or "I,I" shines and dazzles.  This
realization, apart from our sincere self enquiry also needs Guru's
Grace.  A sharp gaze from the Guru will melt your I and make it
curl up into the Self.  This is Guru Kataksham or Guru's Grace. 
This "I-I" is indicated by the word "Thaan" in Tamizh, by Bhagavan.

Since there is no different expressions available in English, the
English writers started using the words "I" and "I-I".  This "I-I"
is Aham Sphurana. 

If you need explanation of these words please see Muruganar's
Padamalai, Verse 599 and Verse 680.  And also Guru Vachaka Kovai
Verse 966.  Please also see David Godman's explanation and Muruganar's Pozhippurai [further comments] on these. 
 
You can also see Verse No. 899 of Padamalai and Muruganar's
comments for understanding Aham Sphurana.  [Tr. David Godman]

Sri Ramana Darsanam of Sadhu Natanananda also describes this
aspect very clearly.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 01:56:38 PM »

Dear kde and others,

Padamalai Verse 640 says:

The answer to the question 'Who am I?' is only the silent Jnana that
shines as "I-I" in the Heart.

Bhagavan Ramana has also explained in Verse 30 of ULLadu Narpadu,
how the "I-I" experience is a consequence of self enquiry.

Questioning 'Who am I?' within one's mind, when one reaches the
Heart, the individual 'I' sinks crestfallen, and at once Reality manifests as "I-I".  Though it reveal itself thus, it is not the ego "I"
but the perfect being, the Self Absolute.

Bhagavan Ramana has also given a more detailed explanation in
Vichara Sangraham:  (Answer to Question 3)

Therefore, leaving the corpse-like body as an actual corpse and
remaining without even uttering the word "I" by mouth, if one now
keenly inquires, 'What is that rises as "I"? then in the Heart, a certain
soundless Sphurana, "I-I" will shine forth on its own accord.  It is an
awareness that is single and undivided, the thoughts which are many
and divided having disappeared.  If one remains still without leaving
it, even the Sphurana - having completely annihilated the sense of the individuality, the form of the ego, 'I am the body' - will itself in the end subside, just like a flame that catches the camphor.  This alone is said to be liberation by great ones and scriptures.

Arunachala Siva. 
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 02:11:31 PM »

Dear kde and others,

What is the Experience of the true "I"?

Muruganar says in Padamalai Verses:

Verse 641: Regard it [the question 'Who am I?'] as the axe that
cleanly severs the doubts that beset you now, and are that bound
to do so in the future.


Verse 642:  That which shines as "I-I" in the Heart, mauna, the
real nature of true Jnana, is itself liberation.

Verse 344:  Do not imagine that there are two 'I's and suffer and
lament as a consequence.  By consolidating yourself in the Self,
know and enjoy the "I" as one.

Verse 234:  The experience of ahamkara [the ego] devoid of 'kara'
[doing, practicing] is the sharp and strong word of Jnana.       

Bhagavan Ramana says in Talks No. 591:-

The original name is always going on spontaneously without any
effort on the part of the individual.  That name is AHAM - "I".
But when it becomes manifest, it manifests as Ahamkara - the ego.

Arunachala Siva.




Nagaraj

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 07:49:53 PM »
Dear I,
Why does Bhagavan Ramana use "I-I"?

Why not "I".

What ever you may read and try to understand the essense of 'I-I' it will never be complete. It is being Self. It is not knowing vastu.

Thou Art That. Its a futile exercise. discard it, and its wise to continue Self Enquiry. I-I respresents Birthlessness and deathlessness - Eternal and Continues.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 12:17:27 PM »

Dear Nagaraj,
[
Yes.  When one attains the state of "I-I", there is no one to declare that 'I-I".


Arunachala Siva.

kde

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2010, 12:24:34 PM »
Thank you all for your kind replies, it is much clearer thank you.

viswanathan

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2010, 03:11:16 PM »
Why does Bhagavan Ramana use "I-I"?

Why not "I".

Dear sir,
            In maharishi's gospel,Bhagavan beautifully explains the meaning of I-I and  says that 'I-I' is the Self.    'I am this' is the ego.When the 'I' is kept as 'I' only it is the Self.When it flies off at tangent and says 'I am this or that,I am such and such'-it is the ego.

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Sage comes and tells 'I' - us...
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2010, 08:56:58 AM »

Dear viswanathan,

Yes. I agree. Maharshi's Gospel says:  Your duty is to be still...
"Only Asmita is I" contains everything. 

Asmita is the purport of Tat tvam asi.  Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer, came to see Bhagavan Ramana sometime
between 1910-1911.  He says in his Ramana Satguru song:
He is the purport of Asi-padam.  [the very meaning of Tat Tvam asi].

Arunachala Siva.