Author Topic: Surrender  (Read 12614 times)

Nagaraj

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Surrender
« on: July 17, 2010, 10:05:29 PM »
One of my close friends, when we were discussing about 'surrendering' to God completely (We had discussed a lot of times before); She had got so tired of surrendering, and one day, she said to me 'If at all I have to surrender anymore, I only have to go to a Police Station and Surrender myself'  :D


I found this very enlightening article by Sri A. Devaraja Mudaliar in one of the Mounatin Path Issues.

Even recent saints have, in their great mercy, told some lucky disciples that if they surrendered completely to the Guru they need not do anything else. Once when Girish Chandra Ghosh wept before Ramakrishna and declared that he could not follow any discipline, however simple or short, Ramakrishna was pleased to tell him: "Then give me power of attorney", meaning: 'Surrender and I will do the rest!'

I once told Bhagavan: "I am another Girish. You must save me yourself. Every saint must have a Girish."

Bhagavan replied But he gave power of attorney."

"I too have surrendered to the extent that I am capable of," I said: "What more can I do?"

Bhagavan said nothing.

It was not Bhagavan's way to say, "Surrender and I will look after you." However, the following incident is significant in that regard. About a year before Bhagavan left the body I said to him one afternoon: "I am going to sing Bhagavan three stanzas from a poem by Sivaprakasam Pillai because they express what I want to say better than I could." I then sang them. Their meaning is: "I have not followed your teaching or instructions; but is it proper for a Guru to get disgusted with his devotee as an incorrigible beast and to give him up? If you let me go my own way like this, what is to happen to me? I shall not reform and you will not correct or change me. Have I any other help in this or the other world except you, my Lord? What, then, is your idea" Is this right behaviour for you?"

Bhagavan did not immediately reply, which caused me some disappointment. After a minute or two he said: "Whether I do anything or not, your business is only to surrender and keep still."

Some friends have told me that I may take this to mean: "Don't worry; I know what to do and will do it." On the other hand, it may only mean: "If you really surrender you have no right to complain; so if a devotee complains it is a sign that he has not surrendered." In any case, I prefer to be an optimist and believe that, however incomplete my surrender may be, so long as his Grace is complete he will look after me all right.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

viswanathan

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2010, 08:25:19 AM »
Dear Mr.Nagaraj,
                      Some time back I met  a staunch devotee of Bhagavan who was working as a professor in a leading college in Chennai.When i was exchanging views on teachings of Bhagavan,she told me that atma vichara( self enquiry ) is easy to practice  as compared to surrender which is very difficult and she was thankful to Bhagavan for giving us the technique of self enquiry.. From our day to day practice,we know that real surrender is very difficult.When  we are happy or achieve something in life ,we forget god where as when there is some serious problem we  remember him.How can this be called as surrender?During one of my visit to Us ,I met a senior devotee who is hindu by birth and a professor in US.He was in full praise of Bhagavan for his method of self enquiry.He told me that Bhagavan has not prescribed any rituals for atma vichara like wearing rudharaksham applying  vibuthi,dress code,doing elaborate puja etc which are all common in Hinduism.If a hindue does not follow all these he will be condemned.Many  of us follow these rituals and outwardly we look divine where as we are full of ego and  we spit venom when we open our mouth.What a Hippocrate  we are?The rituals and customs was are so strong in  Hinduism that  a fellow human being  was not permitted in temples just because he was considered a untouchable.Leave alone temples,they were not permitted to enter inside  house of so called high caste...In the name of rituals,still people of other faiths are not allowed in our temples in some parts of india.In the case of Bhagavan,his life itself was his message.He ate food brought by staunch devotees like keerai patti/Mudaliar patti who were not brahmins,his personnal attendents were all non brahmins.He gave darshan to people of all religion and nationality.This was the power of Bhagavan's self enquiry and this is the reason Bhagavan was attracted by people of  all religion,caste community and nationality throughout the globe.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 09:37:33 AM »

Dear Nagaraj and viswanathan,

For some, Atma Vichara appears to be easy.  For some others,
Saranagati [surrender] appears to be easy.  But both are difficult
and need practice and perseverance.

For those whose ego is quite tough to crack, the surrender is
advocated, because the surrender per se is concerned with
ego only and not the Self.  Surrendering ego totally, one experiences the shining of the Self.  The Self is ever shining but the ego, the impurity should totally be cleaned up.

Bhagavan Ramana attained self realization in Madurai.  The whole thing was an investigation method, which lasted about 15 to 20
minutes.  He has in fact said, "where is the time, there was no
time at all," i.e. only the preparatory work of lying down, making the body stiff, tightening the lips etc., took some time.  Then
the Atmanubhuti revealed itself like a lightning. 

But Bhagavan Ramana also advocated surrender to many.  He has told Devaraja Mudaliar once:  "If you cannot do self enquiry,surrender and remain still."

But, if surrender, I mean the self-surrender is also difficult, then one should keep on smothering the ego, and that is all.


Guru will take care of everything.  Bhagavan Ramana says in
Sri Arunachala Nava Mani Maalai, Verse 7:

"That moment when as Annamalai you called me and made
me your own, you took sole charge of my spirit and my body.  What more do I want?  Merit or defect I know none, apart from you.  My very life you are.  Do with me what you will.  Only,
only, GIVE ME EVER INCREASING LOVE FOR YOUR TWIN FEET."           



Love the Guru's Twin Feet.  Constantly contemplate on His Twin
Feet.

Arunachala Siva.

SLakshmi

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 08:17:21 PM »
The following is from the talk given by Sri V. S. Ramanan, President of Sri Ramanasramam, in New York City at the September 8th, 2002 "Advent at Arunachala" program.

The whole life of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi is a commentary on saranagati (surrender). When he left Madurai for good, he took just the train fare to Tiruvannamalai, threw away the packets of sweets given to him by Muthukrishna Bhagavathara’s wife and was not anxious for the morrow. He tore off from his dhoti only a strip for a kaupina (loin cloth) and he did not even think of using the remaining cloth as a towel. This is total surrender.

Surrender is a practical proposition. It releases the devotee from life’s dilemma. Wherever Sri Krishna teaches about saranagati in the Bhagavad Gita he refers to ananya bhakti, where the instrument and the goal are one and the same. The same idea is stated by Sri Bhagavan in the fifth verse of "Arunachala Pancharatnam":

One who surrenders his heart wholly to you, one who sees you in every aspect of creation, one who loves every creation as himself – he is the one who will succeed, O Arunachala! he will get immersed in you!

Here Sri Bhagavan stresses ananya bhakti and self-surrender.

It is interesting to note that Sri Krishna says, "Do not grieve." After surrendering yourself totally to God, you should not even worry about your own shortcomings or flaws. For if you think you have to improve yourself after surrender, then it indicates a residual ego in you. Hence, don’t grieve about your flaws after surrender. It only shows your surrender is incomplete. Bhagavan says after getting into a train, nobody carries the luggage on his head. He keeps it on the luggage-rack. Likewise, after surrendering, do not continue to carry your mental luggage. Leave it totally to His care.

After surrender you should not have 1) worries, 2) fear, 3) doubt, 4) sorrow, 5) the inclination to test whether surrender is effective or not and 6) aberrations (conflicts).

The devotee who has surrendered is like a lump of clay in the hands of the potter. The lump never says, "Make me a pot! Make me a cup, etc." It leaves it to the potter to mold it into whatever shape he wants it to become.

Sri Bhagavan lays great value on ananya saranagati. There are several instances where He explains the concept to the questioner:

"If you have surrender, it means that you must accept the will of God and not make a grievance of what may not happen to please you. Things may turn out differently from what they appear. Distress often leads people to faith in God.

"The Lord bears the burden of the world. Know that the spurious ego which presumes to bear that burden is like a sculptured figure at the foot of a temple tower which appears to sustain the tower’s weight. There cannot even be impatience for speedy realization."

To one who was so afflicted, he replied: "Surrender to Him and accept His will whether He appears or vanishes. Await His pleasure. If you want Him to do as you want, it is not surrender, but command. You cannot ask Him to obey you and yet think you have surrendered. He knows what is best and when and how to do it. Leave everything entirely to Him. That is what is meant by surrender."

Even prayer can imply a lack of trust and Sri Bhagavan normally did not encourage prayer in the sense of petition:

"They pray to God and finish with ‘Thy will be done’. If His will be done, why do they pray at all? It is true that Divine Will prevails at all times under all circumstances. Individuals cannot act of their own accord. Recognize the force of the Divine Will and keep quiet. Everyone is looked after by God. He created all. You are only one among two thousand millions. When He looks after so many, will He omit you? Even common sense dictates that one should accept His will. There is no need to tell Him your requirements. He knows them Himself and will look after them."

To a devotee’s question Sri Bhagavan replied: "Gandhiji has surrendered himself to the Divine and works accordingly with no self interest. He does not concern himself with the results but accepts them as they turn up. That must be the attitude of national workers.

"Devotee: Will the work be crowned with success?
"Bhagavan: The question arises because the questioner has not surrendered himself."
When a devotee questioned about unconditional surrender, Bhagavan replied:
"If one surrenders completely, there will be no one left to ask questions or to be considered. Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root thought "I", or one surrenders unconditionally to the Higher Power. These are the only two ways to Realization."

[Extract taken from arunachala.org]

Ramanarpamastu

viswanathan

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 10:43:32 AM »

After surrender you should not have 1) worries, 2) fear, 3) doubt, 4) sorrow, 5) the inclination to test whether surrender is effective or not and 6) aberrations (conflicts).


To a devotee’s question Sri Bhagavan replied: "Gandhiji has surrendered himself to the Divine and works accordingly with no self interest. He does not concern himself with the results but accepts them as they turn up. That must be the attitude of national workers.

"
Dear Mrs lakshmi,
The speech By Sri.V.S.Ramanan ,President Ramanasramam on the six qualities referred above  to judge onself whether one has surrendered or attained Jnana is very good tool for all of us to judge ourselves..The other quote on Mahathma Gandhiji To a devotee’s question Sri Bhagavan replied: "Gandhiji has surrendered himself to the Divine and works accordingly with no self interest. He does not concern himself with the results but accepts them as they turn up. That must be the attitude of national workers. assumes importance in light of some of adverse comments appeared somewhere in this forum.Arunachala Ramana forum is browsed by devotees all over globe and some of them not familiar with gandhiji and his teachings will be mislead on going thro the adverse comments.Also, this forum will last for ever and future generation( whether from India or abroad) who may not be knowing   Gandhiji  will also be misled by the comments.Hence, Bhagavan's good certificate on Gndhiji assumes importance. In view of that,i sincerely thank Mrs.lakshmi for contributing for the above thread.
s quote on Mahathma.
[/b]

SLakshmi

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 12:16:51 PM »
Viswanathan sir,

Once sri ramakrishna swami, one of the ashram workers disgressed from sri bhagavan's teachings and was seen to be having an affair with a ashram woman, who too was an ashram worker. some of the devotees who thought that ramakrishna swami had brought a bad name to the ashram disapproved of the appointment. sri bhagavan defending ramakrishna swami said "before when he was working here, he spent a lot of his time outside the ashram on ashram business. he never came to parayana, nor did he ever listen to the teachings in the hall. his mind was always extroverted because he was not doing any meditation.If we keep him in the hall for some time his mind will improve".

sri bhagavan paused for a moment before adding a final comment " His case has come out in the open.But what other people did, and are still doing, has not come out like this."

Why i find sri bhagavan's especially the last comment here is that it is easy for us to be judgmental about people and things in general. But are WE perfection personified?!

sri bhagavan never EVER used any bad words or commented on anyone's impropriety. sri bhagavan had very high regard for mahatma gandhi, sri paramacharya and sivananda and vice-versa. Infact we do not even have the right to "discuss" their lives. leave alone their so called personal mis-doings. Ofcourse debates and discussion on such greats are important but better if they are within the limits of sri bhagavan's own conduct and his outlook towards such things in life.

Guess i have said too much. But couldnt resist. I apologise if i may have spoken out of turn..

ramanarpamastu

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 01:08:59 PM »

Dear SLakshmi,

What is true surrender?  It is the self-surrender.  Muruganar
says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 1189:



By turning towards the Self, a person should dive within and
enquire, 'Who is the bogus independent entity who says 'I'?'
Through that inquiry, he should die willingly in the Atma Swarupam,
which is devoid of the ego, and which is the true form of God.
The excellence of the state of mauna, that then shines, and with
which he is indistinguishably merged, is the consummation of the
practice of surrender.



Arunachala Siva.   

viswanathan

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 01:14:37 PM »
Viswanathan sir,
 it is easy for us to be judgmental about people and things in general. But are WE perfection personified?!

sri bhagavan never EVER used any bad words or commented on anyone's impropriety. sri bhagavan had very high regard for mahatma gandhi, sri paramacharya and sivananda and vice-versa. Infact we do not even have the right to "discuss" their lives. leave alone their so called personal mis-doings. Ofcourse debates and discussion on such greats are important but better if they are within the limits of sri bhagavan's own conduct and his outlook towards such things in life.
Dear Mrs.lakshmi,
I fully agree with your views as above and you are right.
Thanks
A.Viswanathan

Nagaraj

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 03:40:32 PM »
We have to see divinity in everything, be it good or bad, clean or unclean, anything...

We should uplift ourselves whereby, we have to listen to the venting of others and give them solace, but we should also make ourselves wise and never vent on others our difficulties. This is hallmark of a spiritual person.

Paropakaaram idam shariram - This body is only for the service of others. This itself will take us through all problems.

We have to follow the highest order of Ahimsa which Gandhi followed. not hurting anybody, anything by thought word and deed. We should show such kindness to all, animals, insects, even while we walk, we have to walk very slowly consciously bearing in mind how Bhu Devi, mother earth is bearing the weight of all patiently.

We should be so conscious that we do not even abuse non living things as well, like, for example, take care of our vehicles properly like it is also a jiva, do not ride it rashly, go smooth in humps etc... we should have such level of care, we should follow such ideal of Ahimsa.

Even our Slippers, we have to treat it with utmost care and love, that we walk slowly and not hurt even the slippers.

Such compassion - we have to cultivate.

Ahimsa itself is Realisation, Brahman, Atman

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 03:42:19 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 11:51:39 PM »
Dear Nagraj garu,

It is not possible to follow ahimsa always.

You are right if you say that we should follow ahimsa as far as possible in our life.

Even gandhiji would have surely killed unknowingly many little creatures when walking many times in his life.

When all routes close and all options are over only then lord krishna has agreed for the war.

Even ramana maharshi asked Annamali Swami to clear the area of ants.

Quote
One day after lunch we noticed lots of ants in the Old Hall disturbing the devotees. Bhagavan asked me to inspect the area and do the needful. When I went and lifted a stone, millions of ants rushed out. I was jumping all over in order to avoid crushing them. When Bhagavan asked me what I was doing, I explained that it would be jivahimsa to kill hundreds and thousands of ants by stepping upon them or by closing the opening through which they came out. He said, "You are not doing it for yourself, it is for the sake of others." He then quoted from Chapter thirteen of Bhagavad Gita where Krishna says that even killing is permitted if it is for the benefit of the world. Upon hearing this, I cleared the area of ants, sealed the entrance and cemented it.

We are in Kali Yuga sir and not in Satya Yuga.If we are in Satya Yuga then maybe we can achieve 100% ahimsa.

If our government follows only ahimsa and close all our jails and bring back military from the border and bans police jobs then wonder how india will be like  :)

What to tell even with all our military force and security we are unable to stop 26/11 mumbai attacks,hyderabad gokul chat attacks etc.

Once i remember Kanchi Sage has distributed Hanuman Chalisa to our soldiers before they are about to engage in war.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 08:59:12 AM »

Dear SLakshmi, prasanth, Nagaraj and others,

Saiva Siddhantam always glorifies the role of ahimsa, non-
injury to others.  Sivam only means Love.  But during Tiru
Jnana Sambandhar's time, he had to debate with Jain monks
and after their defeat, the king executed these Jain monks.
So, the saint was the indirect cause of Jain monks' death.


Arunachala Siva.     

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 09:01:24 AM »
Man is a product of evolution and he is violent.So the whole society is violent.That is why it needs police,military to curb
violence to manageable levels.Violence not only means physical hurting or killing but also psychological hurting.
Every body hurts every body psychologically daily.Comparison,competition is hurting because in comparing the other
being we are him to a measurable thing which he is really not.Non-violence is a mental concept.If we practice
non-violence with mind it implies that at present i am violent and sometime in future i will be non-violent,meanwhile
my nature continues to be violent.Gandhiji compelled Kasturiba to clean the latrines in South Africa.It is encroaching
into her freedom and that encroachment is violence.His son wanted to marry a muslim woman and Gandhiji rejected it
even he prays daily the song of Eswara Allah tere naam.His son pointed out that fact.But Gandhiji is stubborn.
His son took islam and changed his name to Abdullah which means servant god,which is similar in meaning to Haridas.
Once Abdullah happened to see his mother in a railway station and came to ask for blessings of Kasturiba and she is an
ordinary mother and wanted to bless her son.But Gandhiji prevented her from doing that saying to Kasturiba if you
bless him you will lose me.Kasturiba with tears in her eyes is compelled not to bless her own son.Is it not violence
on the part of Gandhiji whom the whole India feels that he is next to Buddha in non-violence.Unless we go beyond
ego we don't go beyond violence.Buddha is beyond the ego,in Nirvana in which the light of ego is extinguished once
and forever.But that is not the case with Gandhiji.I do not want to undermine great qualities of Gandhi had but he is
violent,that is a fact.In 1947 when Indian planes are about to bombard positions in Kashmir he blessed those pilots
from the ground.Is it a sign of non-violence?If we practice non-violence with the mind we will also be in the same
position or much worse also.So we can live a life of ego with violence or we can go beyond the ego and live a life
without single conflict,strife,violence.
pvssnraju

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 09:05:48 AM »
Dear Subramanian,Namaste.
                                     It is quite surprising that a great being like Adi Sankara had a debate with Buddhists and who ever
loses has to jump in the fire.Adi Sankara won the debate and asked the Buddhists to jump into the fire which they did.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2010, 09:21:13 AM »

Dear Dr. Raju,

Yes.  Both Adi Sankara and Tiru Jnana Sambandha were using
violence on some occasions.  You have written about Gandhi.

In this connection, I remember one TirukuraL of Tiruvalluvar.
There must be some inner meaning in that couplet.  I am
still to understand.  He says:

"Learned say that only for Dharma, love is essential.  But
for adharma too, love is essential." 

Perhaps as a doctor, you know even  mercy killing and euthanasia,
are done only for the benefit of the suffering patients.



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2010, 10:10:23 AM »

Yes.  There is no punya or papa in a Swadharma.  A lion has to
necessarily hunt a deer and eat.  Otherwise it cannot survive.
The eating of grass is not its swadharma.  Similarly, a soldier
who kills 10 soldiers of the opposing army gets Veer Chakra.
If as a civilian, if I kill even one person, I get lifetime imprisonment
or execution.

Arunachala Siva.