Author Topic: Surrender  (Read 12628 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2010, 09:54:19 AM »

Dear Ramanaduli,

In the ten avataras of Vishnu, Parasurama, Balarama are the ones
which are always interchanged with others. Srimad  Bhagavatam   
or Sri Narayaneeyam do not speak Buddha as an avatara of Vishnu.
It might be ISKCON's own interpretation.

There is also mention about 24 avataras of Vishnu in some Bhagavatam recensions.

Thank God, Siva has no such problem.  There is no avatara for Him.



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2010, 11:04:27 AM »

Dear srkudai,

I agree.  Bhagavan Ramana did not speak about Radha Krishna
stories.  He has mentioned Sri Rama, on many occasions.  When
Krishna Premi came to see Him and when the former went to
the Hill and was having visions of Sri Krishna and Radha, it had
become very late for lunch and Viswantha Swami went to the Hill
and told him:  "O Swami!  Krishna has already gone from Brindavan
to Mathura. His lunch is getting delayed.  Please come and join Him!"   

Bhagavan Ramana told Sri Krishna Premi:  "It is alright you have
been having visions of Sri Krishna.  But why not you bring that
Krishna to your Heart and be more happy, without such visions?"

All visions are fevered imaginations.  The real vision is abidance
within.  The visions operate with one's ego.  The abidance is
without any ego, the ego having been placed at the altar of Atma.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2010, 11:15:45 AM »



Bhagavan Ramana often used the two terms, Atma-nishta and Atma Chintana.  Atma Nishta means self abidance and Atma Chintana which literally means 'self thought' or the thought of our Self'.

The first of these two terms, 'self abidance' is particularly significant because it implies the truth that attending to and knowing ourself is not an action, but is just the state of consciously abiding as our real self, or in other words, simply being what we really are, which is perfectly thought free self conscious being.  However the other term 'self thought' could be easily mistaken to imply that self attention is an act of 'thinking' of ourself. Though these two terms seem to imply conflicting
meanings, Bhagavan Ramana uses both of them in the first sentence of 13th paragraph of Who am I? in the context of describing the state of complete self surrender.

Being completely absorbed in Atma Nishta giving not even the slightest room to the rising of any thought except atma chinatana [the thought of our own real Self] is giving ourself to God.......

The reason why He uses the term atma chintana or self thought
in this context, is to emphasize the fact that in order to abide
in the state of perfect self surrender we should not attend to
or 'think of' anything other than our own essential being.  Hence,
if we truly wish to surrender our individual self or mind entirely to god, we must refrain from thinking anything else.



Arunachala Siva.   

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2010, 12:52:36 PM »
Thank God, Siva has no such problem.  There is no avatara for Him.

Dear Subramanian Garu,

Lord Shiva himself is said to be an avatar of Rudra, the god of the roaring storm, is usually portrayed in accordance with the element he represents as a fierce, destructive deity.

So that is the reason Lord shiva has no problems as he himself is believed to be an avatar of Rudra.

Infact as known lord shiva is never mentioned in vedas and Some historians believe that the figure of Shiva as we know him today was built up over time, with the ideas of many regional sects being amalgamated into a single figure.

During the Vedic period, both Vishnu and Shiva (as identified with Rudra) played relatively minor roles, but by the time of the Brahmanas (c. 1000-700 BCE), both were gaining ascendance.

I think it is better for all of us that we follow path of Jagad Guru Adi Sankara as he has written stotras in praise of most of the hindu gods/goddess.

Moreover who is lord shiva or who is lord krishna sir everyone is same which is the basic essence of advaita Vedanta.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2010, 03:51:40 PM »

Dear prasanth,

Siva is called as Agni [Tiruvannamalai Principle!] in Rig Veda.
Agnim ILe... thus starts Rig Veda.  In Yajur Veda, He is called
Rudra.  Rudra is one of the trimuvarites - Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra.
Further entire Sama Veda sings only the glory of Siva.

Siva has got five faces, as per Vedas.  These are Vamadeva,
Aghora, Rudra, Siva and Sadasiva.

Siva has got eight forms, Nataraja, Bhikshtana, Kalyana Sundara,
Somaskanda, Kalabairava, etc., etc.,

The eight forms are also depicting five elements, sun, moon and fire.

Siva used to "come and go'.  He does not take birth and live and
withdraw his form, as Vishnu. But He appears as an old brahmin
[Siruthondar, Karaikal Amma, Vajrangatha Pandyan] and sometimes as a hunter [to Arjuna].  These are all just appearances without leading a full life like Rama and Krishna.     



Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2010, 03:54:43 PM »

Incidentally, there is no Radha in Srimad Bhagavatam.  She represents the essence of all gopikas [jivas] for the first time,
in Jayadeva's works [15th Century AD] and in Srimad Narayaneeyam
of Meppathur Bhattadri.[17th Century AD].

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2010, 04:43:29 PM »
Radha is Jivaatma and Krishna is Paramaatma. Radha signifies ourselves, the 'I' how we have to go about in out lives, Radha signifies the Sadhana. When the 'I' merges into the Self Krishna, there is only Krishna, and Radha herself is Krishna.

Radha, got married to somebody else, but she loved Krishna - This signifies that Radha was troubled like anyone of us in her Samsara but her mind was always immersed in thought of Krishna and she never missed Him or felt His absence. She used to see Krishna, talk with him consciously. Her conduct is what we - 'I' have to develop. I have read some stories about how her in-laws used to think that she was mad, mentally not stable. But all these did not trouble Radha, she was always immersed in the Krishna Consciousness.

Radha is Krishna and Krishna is Radha.

Radha signifies the Nirguna Upasana, Krishna represents Saguna Upasana.

The Merging of Radha and Krishna as One - Krishna is the Shiva-Shakti Tattva.

Without Shakti there is no Shiva and without Shiva there is no Shakti.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 04:55:40 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2010, 04:55:51 PM »

Dear Nagaraj,

God-intoxicated women do not even bother for their husbands.
The story of Chakku Bai in Bhakta Vijayam story is also like that.

Akka Mahadevi [who was a spinster], has said:

"I wish to run away with Siva.  I care not for anyone else.  Burn
all these human husbands in the kitchen fire!"



Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2010, 05:49:14 PM »
Dear Subramaniyan ji,


In Meenkshi Kalyanam, He came from Kailas and got married. Again in the story of Kanyakumari He came to marry but He was stoped by devas. In that way He took forms. But it is not called avatarams as Rama and Krishna.
But when I went to buy a Hanuman animation c.d. (for kids) there it is said, there is a demon, who gives problems to people. To kill him devas went to shiva to save them. Shiva says I will take avatar as Hanuman and kill him.
And it is the time Vishnu also take avatar as Rama to kill Ravan. So it is clearly said, it is a avatar of shiva.
Myself also do not know much about puranas. For all the doubts there is only one way, just we can ask to whom
all this arrives. But before steping into atma vichara, I feel this type of stories all necessary. It helps to have bhakthi in this modern world.


Ramanaduli


ramanaduli

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2010, 06:47:39 PM »
Dear Udai ji


Yesterday I was listening the pravachanam about Rama Krishna by Suki Shivam. After hearing it will make you spellbound. He started whether He is a avathar or maha saint. At last Shivam gave the points and it is proofed yes He is avatar only. The name itself says, Rama Krishna. I heard it in tamil. I try to write in english. We should lead our life like Rama. Rama never wrote or told how to live but He showed by living. On the other hand Krishna gave upadesa. We have to follow Krishna's upadesa but we should not do what He did. Here Rama Krishna's life shows both way of Rama & Krishna. Parama Hamsa lived like Rama and Krishna. He married like Rama and He gave upadesa like Krishna that is why Gangadhar became Rama Krishna. Therefore, each atma sadhak should read and follow either Rama Krishna or Ramana. Hope I could put what I understand.


Ramanaduli

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2010, 12:53:49 AM »
well said ramadulai garu.

Yes Lord Hanuman is said to be an incarnation of Lord Shiva.

nagraj garu your description of radha and krishna comparing to jivatma and paramatma is amazing.

Subramaian garu your research is good sir.


ramanaduli

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2010, 01:03:16 AM »
Dear sirs,

Radha Madhavam is a poetic style written by Atmananda. It explains what is Radha and Krishna. One should
read and understand this Radha Madhavam



Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Surrender
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2010, 09:13:51 AM »

Dear Ramanaduli,

Hanuman is not an avatara of Siva, but Hanuman has got the
features of Siva, like Sri Ramakrishna has got the features of
KaLi.  In fact, Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni also described Bhagavan
Ramana as an avatara of Skanda.  Bhagavan Ramana as usual,
remained quiet on this issue.

Hanuman, Sri Ramakrishna, Bhagavan Ramana had all the noble
characteristics of the gods but they are not avataras.  It is only
euphemism that we attribute avatara-hood for these great persons.

Arunachala Siva.