Author Topic: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti  (Read 2760 times)

silentgreen

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Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« on: July 13, 2010, 03:41:46 PM »
Bhagavan Ramana says:

Then what is the samadhi you speak of?

In yoga the term samadhi refers to some kind of trance and there are various kinds of it. But the samadhi I speak of is different. It is sahaja samadhi. For, here you have samadhana, you remain calm and comprehend even while you are active; you realise that you are moved by the deeper Real Self within. You have no worries, no anxieties, no cares. For here you come to realize that there is nothing belonging to you, the ego. And everything is done by something with which you get into conscious union.



Sri Ramakrishna says the same thing:

"What is knowledge? And what is the nature of this ego?
'God alone is the Doer, and none else' – that is knowledge. I am not the doer; I am a mere instrument in His hand.

Therefore I say: 'O Mother, Thou art the Operator and I am the machine. Thou art the Indweller and I am the house. Thou art the Driver and I am the carriage. I move as Thou movest me. I do as Thou makest me do. I speak as Thou makest me speak. Not I, not I, but Thou, but Thou.' "
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 04:10:44 PM »
SilentGreen Garu,

I believe There is nothing wrong if jnani has worries, anxieties and cares.

Jnani is also a human like us and its absolutely fine if he has all human emotions.

Example:

care - Bhagavan Ramana used to take care of his mother and is concerned for her spiritual sadhana and similarly he used to take care of every one who approached him and as known ramana Was Deeply Interested In Construction of mother's samadhi.

anxieties - There are many moments in bhagavan life where he was anxious to know/learn few things.

worries - He was worried about his mother's health and wrote few verses to arunachala to cure his mother's health and i am sure there are many more incidents.

attachment/emotion - When ever a great passage in any sacred text was read he used to cry and was unable to control his emotion for quite some time.

Moreover Ramana Maharshi Says Jnani Belongs To The Fourth Stage Of Jnana Bhoomikas


(i). subheccha (the desire for enlightenment).
(ii). vicharana (enquiry).
(iii). tanumanasa (tenuous mind).
(iv). satwapatti (self-realization).
(v). asamsakti (non-attachment).
(vi). padarthabhavana (non-perception(sensing) of objects).
(vii). turyaga (transcendence).


Conclusion: Though jnani has all kind of emotions internally jnani is peaceful in nature and he plays his part/role in the world. SO IT IS UNFAIR TO EXPECT JNANIS TO BE LIKE SUPER-HUMANS AND PERFORM MIRACLES AND NOT TO SHOW ANY ATTACHMENT/EMOTION AND BE LIKE A STONE.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 04:50:13 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 04:25:16 PM »
beautifully explained udai garu.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 04:37:22 PM »

Dear prasanth,

Bhagavan Ramana did everything that you have mentioned in
his pure egoless state, without the feeling of 'I-thought'.

Arunachala Siva.

silentgreen

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 04:46:46 PM »
Dear prasanth_ramana_maharshi,

What you say is correct.
But unless a person actually realises that "everything is done by something with which you get into conscious union", that person cannot be called a jnani. Merely believing this will not make a person jnani, but it is actually a fact with jnani. That everything is done by a deeper Real Self within. All the anxieties, cares and worries of the jnani is also without sense of ego and while in conscious union with the Real Self. The anxieties of normal person are often due to a perceived threat on the ego and therefore "ego preserving". The jnani does not have ego and his anxieties are either compassion, service or worship (for this the jnani may retain a little ego). Compassion, service, worship etc are divine qualities which manifests through the jnani.

Even compassion is not the correct word in its literal sense.
Sri Ramakrishna clarified this:
Sometime in 1884, once the Master was sitting in the room surrounded by his devotees including Narendranath. In the course of conversation arose the topic of Vaishnava religion, and explaining the essence of that doctrine the Master said, "That doctrine teaches that one should always be careful to observe three things, namely, a taste for God's name, kindness to all beings, and the service of co-devotees. … One should have the conviction in one's heart that the whole universe belongs to Krishna, and therefore, one should have compassion for all beings." No sooner had Sri Ramakrishna uttered the words ‘compassion for all beings’ than he suddenly went into ecstasy. Regaining partial normal consciousness, he continued, "Talk of compassion for beings! Insignificant creature that you are, how can you show compassion for all beings? Who are you to show compassion? You wretch, who are you to bestow it! No, no; it is not compassion to jivas, but service to them as Shiva."
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 05:01:23 PM »

The jnani does not have ego and his anxieties are either compassion, service or worship (for this the jnani may retain a little ego).

Insignificant creature that you are, how can you show compassion for all beings? Who are you to show compassion? You wretch, who are you to bestow it! No, no; it is not compassion to jivas, but service to them as Shiva."

very well said silent green garu and Subramanian garu.

In Nan Yaar PARAGRAPH SEVEN Bhagavan Guru Ramana says,

That which actually exists is only atma-svarupa [our own essential self]. The world, soul and God are kalpanaigal [imaginations, mental creations or fabrications] in it [our essential self], like [the imaginary] silver [that we see] in a shell. These three [basic elements of relativity or duality] appear at the same time and disappear at the same time. [Our] svarupa [our 'own form' or essential self] alone is the world; [our] svarupa alone is 'I' [our mind or individual self]; [our] svarupa alone is God; everything is siva-svarupa [our essential self, which is siva, the absolute and only truly existing reality].

If there are any vaishnavaite Advaitans in this forum then please replace siva in the above paragraph with Lord vishnu/krishna or any of your favourite god.

Finally message is same for everyone.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 06:00:23 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 06:35:20 PM »

Dear silentgreen, prasanth, Ramanaduli and others,

In order to accommodate this ego or mind or knowledge, Saiva
Siddhantam says, the Jnanis have got Suddha Manam, Suddha
Ahankaram and Suddha ARivu:

Saint Tayumanavar says:  Suddha ARive Sivam!

In some SRK Math books, I have seen the usage, Pure Intellect
and Pure Ego. 

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2010, 08:45:34 AM »
Dear Subramanian,is there a significance to the name " Tayumanavar "?
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 09:58:44 AM »

Dear Dr. Raju,

Tayumanavar means literally the "one who is also the Mother".
This is the name of Siva in the Temple on the Rockfort of Tiruchirapalli.  This is a fort, which, after climbing about 400
steps, you come across this Temple.  The goddess is called
Sugantha KunthalambaL, meaning one who has got fragrant
locks of hair.  Saint Tayumanavar, was born here and had the
this name Tayumanavar.  Beyond this Temple, if one could
again climb another 120 steps you can see Ganapati who is
very famous in Tiruchirapalli.  I was living in this town for about
five years of my graduation and post graduation.
[/b ]
Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sahaja Samadhi and Bhakti
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 10:26:50 AM »

Dear Dr. Raju,

Here, I cannot but say the story as to why Siva got that name
Tayumanavar, the One who is also Mother.  Once in the town
of Tiruchirapalli, there lived a couple and the wife was in advanced
pregnancy.  There was no female member to take care of her
delivery.  Her mother was informed and she had to come from a
village, across Kaveri river.  The river had no bridge in those times,
and she had to come only by boat.  The mother started, but Kaveri
had overflowing floods and even boatman did not want to ferry
the boat for the mother.  Siva then took the guise of the lady's
mother, went to her house, and soon the young wife got labour pains, and Siva as a mother undertook the delivery formalities.
A cute male baby was born.  The young wife became immensely
happy.  A few days passed.  The "original mother" then came
since the floods had abated and she could cross the river by
boat.  The young mother opened the doors and found her original
mother there.  She was astonished.  "Where did you go?  I told
you to take care of the baby, while I was cooking."  The original
mother got doubly astonished and said:  I am coming only now.
Who is the mother you are talking about?  Both rushed to the
baby's room and there was not mother! 

Both mother and daughter were confused.  Who came?  Who
came as the mother?  Who took care of the delivery formalities?
They went into to the puja room and found Sivalingam there,
smiling as a mother, for a few seconds and disappeared!
The family named  the child as Tayumanavar, Siva, who is also
the Mother!       

Siva in that temple thus came to be called Tayumanavar,
Ammaiappar, Matrubhuteswarar.  Incidentally, the Siva Lingam
in Asramam in Mother's Temple is also called Matrubhuteswarar.
Devaraja Mudaliar used to call Bhagavan as:  Ammai-appan.
Mother-Father.

Saint Tayumanavar was a great Siva bhakta.  He has siddhic
powers.  But he wanted to do self enquiry.  He went to a Guru
who was called Mouna Guru, who never spoke but taught him
the art of self enquiry.

Arunachala Siva.