Author Topic: Which one to erase?  (Read 19095 times)

ramanaduli

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2010, 08:39:44 AM »
Dear Viswanathan ji

I first admit myself that I do not have any knowledge in any thing. Just I hear so many thing here and there.
But after reading Bhagavan's book I felt I wasted my life without understanding anything. But from this forum
slowly I learn so many terms. You say we are jiva who are jadam, But we have life and mind. With this mind we
do lots of work. Of course the body does not have knowledge. We have the mind which produces the thought.
with this thought we do all karmas. I want to know who is the doer. who should be claimed for the work. Before coming to atma vichara I used to say "I" do. Bhagavan says everything is being done by Eswara. (ELLAM AVAN SEYAL). If we live with the people who are doing atma vicharam it is easy to keep silent. But in vivaharik lokam
we should mention the who is the doer. It means that whatever we do, it is not that we are doing. The body is jadam, The mind...... truely speaking there is no such thing like mind. Last one is consiousness..  if it is the consiousness...does it have any sankalpa to do karmas.  I am very sorry for my ignorance. You must be knowing how much I got knowledge from my questions. (ORE KUZHAPPAM)  After all these confusion I think saranagathi is the only way for me. Reading books,going to temple,doing pujas, keeping upavasam, dipping in holi water nothing gives satisfaction. If I read NAN YAR book it looks it is very easy. In fact no progress at all.


Ramanaduli

viswanathan

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2010, 09:45:59 AM »
Dear Viswanathan ji

I first admit myself that I do not have any knowledge in any thing. Just I hear so many thing here and there.
But after reading Bhagavan's book I felt I wasted my life without understanding anything. But from this forum
slowly I learn so many terms. You say we are jiva who are jadam, But we have life and mind. With this mind we
do lots of work. Of course the body does not have knowledge. We have the mind which produces the thought.
with this thought we do all karmas. I want to know who is the doer. who should be claimed for the work. Before coming to atma vichara I used to say "I" do. Bhagavan says everything is being done by Eswara. (ELLAM AVAN SEYAL). If we live with the people who are doing atma vicharam it is easy to keep silent. But in vivaharik lokam
we should mention the who is the doer. It means that whatever we do, it is not that we are doing. The body is jadam, The mind...... truely speaking there is no such thing like mind. Last one is consiousness..  if it is the consiousness...does it have any sankalpa to do karmas.  I am very sorry for my ignorance. You must be knowing how much I got knowledge from my questions. (ORE KUZHAPPAM)  After all these confusion I think saranagathi is the only way for me. Reading books,going to temple,doing pujas, keeping upavasam, dipping in holi water nothing gives satisfaction. If I read NAN YAR book it looks it is very easy. In fact no progress at all.
Ramanaduli
Dear Mr.Ramanaduli,
                          I am also in the same state as you and hence do not feel disgusted. There is no need at all to read all sastras and volumes of books since all these will strengthen our ego instead of destroying it. Naan yar alone is good enough to understand the whole teaching of Bhagavan. Bhagavan says that root cause for  all evil is the mind and he wants  us to control /destroy it and he has given easy method.What is required is Practice,practice and more practice.If a beginner is  asked to touch his toes with hand, without bending knees, it will extremely difficult for him to do it.However,if he continues to practice for a month, then he will be able to do it easily.In the same way Bhagavan says that if we continue the practice for some time, mind will gets the power to stay at its source. We always look out instead of looking in which is the root cause of problem.Try to turn attention inwards whenever you have free time whether it is during walking, driving,eating,watching TV and then you will realize the result of turning the mind inwards.Practice and enjoy.Good luck.Our immediate problem is mind for which Bhagavan has given an easy method.Do not bother about realization/Mukthi etc since Bhagavan says it will automatically   come in appropriate  time as per the Easwar sankalpa.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2010, 09:57:31 AM »
Action is spontaneously done without any doer.Action is not binding.
Activity is the action done with doership,it is binding because doer is there.
We have to discriminate between action and activity.Both are different.
Action is natural.Activity is mental.
Taking food when we are hungry is action,it is natural.
Taking different types of food to appease the mind is an activity and is binding because it becomes a tendency and tendency
prompts us to do same thing again and again.
Having shelter,food,clothing,job are natural.
Amassing wealth leads to activity and is born out of desire from the mind.So all activity is mental born out of desire and is binding
because of doership.
Action is physiological and natural and activity is unnatural and pathological and so binding.
pvssnraju

viswanathan

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2010, 11:08:33 AM »
Action is spontaneously done without any doer.Action is not binding.
Activity is the action done with doership,it is binding because doer is there.
We have to discriminate between action and activity.Both are different.
Action is natural.Activity is mental.
Taking food when we are hungry is action,it is natural.
Taking different types of food to appease the mind is an activity and is binding because it becomes a tendency and tendency
prompts us to do same thing again and again.
Having shelter,food,clothing,job are natural.
Amassing wealth leads to activity and is born out of desire from the mind.So all activity is mental born out of desire and is binding
because of doership.
Action is physiological and natural and activity is unnatural and pathological and so binding.
Dear Dr.Raju,
 Excellent  description for action and  activity.You have described in very simple sentence  to enable any body to easily understand.Please keep it up for the benefit of Bhagaan devotees.
Best regards
Viswanathan
               

moslemk

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2010, 11:15:55 AM »
Dear viswanathan:

I found your clarifications on my questions very helpful to have a better grasp of Sri Ramana Maharshi's teaching on self-inquiry! As you mentioned in your recent reply 'Who am I?' contains the gist of Ramana's teachings but I am not sure how one could avoid misinterpretations or, maybe better to say, ego's interpretations of his teachings. Yours and others elaborations are really helpful to me as a beginner. Thank you!

Regards

viswanathan

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2010, 12:26:26 PM »
Dear viswanathan:

I found your clarifications on my questions very helpful to have a better grasp of Sri Ramana Maharshi's teaching on self-inquiry! As you mentioned in your recent reply 'Who am I?' contains the gist of Ramana's teachings but I am not sure how one could avoid misinterpretations or, maybe better to say, ego's interpretations of his teachings. Yours and others elaborations are really helpful to me as a beginner. Thank you!

Regards
Dear Sir,
           I suggest you to go through the book titled "Path of Ramana-Part one" by Sadhu Om Swamigal.This is an excellent book which describes very clearly in simple terms , the teachings of Bhagavan and the E edition of this book is available from the site of Mr.Michel James who is a staunch devotee of Bhagavan Ramana and is very thorough in Bhagavan's teachings.The site address is http://www.happinessofbeing.com/path_ramana.html.
With regard to  book" Who Am I', i suggest you to go through the elaborate translation  given by Mr.Michel James and can be read from  his  website http://www.happinessofbeing.com/. These two books alone are sufficient to understand Bhagavan's teachings.Enjoy and find happiness and peace.
Best regards
Viswanathan

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2010, 02:51:07 PM »
Dear viswanathan garu,

Infact, My first book i have read regarding bhagavan ramana is Micheal James "Happiness And Art of Living".

It is a brilliant book and immediately got attracted to bhagavan ramana whose name i have never heard in my life prior to reading that book.



ramana_maharshi

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2010, 03:40:58 PM »
Dear udai garu,

I am sure even you have similar views that thoughts are not a problem based on your many posts in the recent past.

SURPASSING OR KILLING OF EGO TO MAJOR EXTENT IS REQUIRED AND SO LONG WE ACHIEVE THIS IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER WE HAVE THOUGHTS OR NOT.

I will suggest you to read one of my previous post regarding this.

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=5917.msg16558#msg16558

SLakshmi

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2010, 05:34:34 PM »
Viswanathan Sir,

Very happy to have you back in the forum! chittam, budhdhi and thoughts are themselves the product of the mind. So are all these components are to be nutured until realisation is attained? or better ignore them or 'weaken them' by not paying attention to them.

Application of self-enquiry or japam or any other kind of sadhana while purusuing your day-to-day activities have perplexed me. I am unable to understand. If suppose i go for a meeting. I meet people, i prepare the report and i need to present it. How do i do it without the mind? How is sadhana inter-twined with a person's normal activity. Also, If action be natural and activity a product of the mind, how is a person to set a target and achieve those goals in life? Coz, please correct me if i am wrong, from what i understand, you need to have an activity of the mind and indulge in action in order to further your vision for the company, or for your children or for the country etc. are we not to have ambitions and work on them?


Ramanarpamastu

Subramanian.R

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2010, 05:41:43 PM »

Dear viswanathan and others.

Thoughtlessness is the state of a Jnani and Jnana Bodham.
But as Dr. Raju said, certain actions which are done without
a conscious mind, as an accidental error do not cause vasanas
and these are not thoughts or actions.  Once Bhagavan Ramana,
when He was strolling on the western slope of the Hill, placed His
left leg on a thicket of bushes covered by green leaves and hornets
came in a swarm and stung His left thigh to their hearts' content.
Bhagavan Ramana wanted an appropriate punishment even for these
accidental error and stayed their till his thigh became red and swollen.  This rare incident is sung by Muruganar in his Verse 815
of GVK.  Bhagavan also has written a verse on this see Bhagavan's
Verse 16 after GVK 815.

Arunachala Siva.

silentgreen

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2010, 05:45:36 PM »
When the bliss of the beyond "emerges" from within even faintly, everything seems to fall in place.
If target is set, that is also ok.
If target is not set, that is also ok.
If target is met, that is also ok.
If target is not met, that is also ok.
For we heartfully yearn for that bliss of the beyond. And nothing less can satisfy us.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Subramanian.R

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2010, 06:14:05 PM »

Dear viswanathan and others,

Can we state this way, a la Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman:?

The thoughts are the pencil writings on the paper, which one
does not want.

The I-thought is the eraser.

With this eraser, I-thought, erase all the writings, other thoughts.

Finally you will find that the eraser is also erased, becomes thin
and disappear.

Erase the eraser.

Arunachala Siva.

viswanathan

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2010, 06:38:53 PM »
Dear Viswanathan ji

How we identify our thoughts as a ego? For an example if some one who asks "Who has done this work"
The person who did he has to tell, yes this is done by me. In this place identifying the "I" is it ego?
Ramanaduli

With referenceto your specific question on Ego I would like add some more as it occurred to me after posting my last post
!.We all know the famous quote in tamil 'Avaninri  ooranuvum asaiyadhu'  meaning   
   nothing  in the shristi (universe)can function without the power of god. Also we know that the
   god is the creator of  everything in the universe.

2.Also we know the quote  that god is the dispenser of fruits of action

3.If we believe in god, it means that we accept the quote 1&2 as above

4.If we accept quote 1&2 and still say that I am the doer then it contradicts the quote
 “Avaninri  ooranuvum asaiyadhu “, and  exhibits the strong sense of ego in us.
  Similarly, when we accept the quote that everything in the creation is created by god ,
  then  the creator is the owner of everything in the creation. .Knowing this well if a 
  person still claims as  the owner of anything in this creation , again it exhibits  his strong sense of ego. 
 
5.Take the example of an atheist who claims that everything is done by him and not by
   god..Assuming that his statement is correct, then  he must  be able to control his heart by stopping  and starting
   at his will. Is he able to do that? .Leave alone atheist, even believers of god who claim to have strong belief in scriptures and also claim that 
    they are the  doer will not be able to stop and start the heart at their will.
6.Still we claim that we are the doer and everything is mine knowing very well that we cannot carry anything with us after death.This is what we mean
   by Ego
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2010, 06:43:31 PM »

Dear viswanathan,


I remember to have read this:

Once someone told Bhagavan Ramana:  AVAN ANRI OR ANUVUM
ASIAYATHU - WITHOUT HIM NOT EVEN AN ATOM MOVES.

Bhagavan Ramana is one who never accepted anything other
than Adviatam, non dual consciousness.  So He corrected the
statement:

AVAN ANRI ASAIYATHU.

He is there.  He only moves.  If anything moves, it is only He!

The devotee was flabbergasted.   


Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: Which one to erase?
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2010, 08:11:22 PM »
Dear Viswanathan ji,


I learnt from this forum lot. Now the false veil which was covered on really "I" is removed by my interaction.
It is 100% true there is only one "Self" named as God, consiousness, Eswara. What I am saying is it is ok when you live all alone or with the same wave length of people. But it is very difficult to live and move with that type of people in family, office etc. etc. 99% of people do not want to know who they are. You cannot satisfy them
by giving any explaination. For my earliest question, Mr. Udai ji said  we are the actors. The actors are doing their
part on the stage. They do not interact with the audience where in a family,or in soceity you are subject to answer and take a decision. Our decision may not be accepted with others so ultimately we are forced to do against our will.
At the end, we have to say ourselves, that is "the unpleasant which makes un unhappiness is due to our ego,
and we should accept it is Eswara's will or it is the destiny. The last sanjeevini is EVERYTHING IS MAYA. BECAUSE IN DEEP SLEEP THERE IS NO WORLD NO FAMILY,NO WILL, NO THOUGHTS,NO ACTIONS AND NO DOER.
SARVAM BRAHMA MAYAM. Observing all the happining inside which leads us spell bound. It is not Mounam. We do not know how to deal with the people. For the sake of people we have to utter the word "I".  i.e. ''I did the work"
That is all.  It may be happening to myself only. This is the reason (me) want to know how to use this "I"
I think as being confused I make other members also confusing. Because from the postings of  all the senior members it looks very clear they all are very well realaised.

Thanking you all
Ramanaduli