Author Topic: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?  (Read 4402 times)

ramana_maharshi

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Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« on: June 23, 2010, 01:55:23 PM »
D.: Are there degrees of illusion?

B.: Illusion itself is illusory. It must be seen by somebody outside it, but how can such a seer be subject to it? So, how can he speak of degrees of it?

You see various scenes passing on a cinema screen: fire seems to burn buildings to ashes; water seems to wreck ships; but the screen on which the pictures are projected remains unburnt and dry. Why? Because the pictures are unreal and the screen real.

As I recalled Bhagavan saying sometimes that unreal (mithya, imaginary) and real (satyam) mean the same, but did not quite understand, I asked him about it. He said, ‘Yes, I do sometimes say that. What do you mean by real? What is it that you call real?’

I answered: “According to Vedanta, only that which is permanent and unchanging can be called real. That is the meaning of Reality.”

Then Bhagavan said: “The names and forms which constitute the world continually change and perish and are therefore called unreal. It is unreal (imaginary) to limit the Self to these names and forms and real to regard all as the Self. The non-dualist says that the world is unreal, but he also says, ‘All this is Brahman’. So it is clear that what he condemns is, regarding the world as objectively real in itself, not regarding it as Brahman. He who sees the Self sees the Self alone in the world also. It is immaterial to the Enlightened whether the world appears or not. In either case, his attention is turned to the Self.It is like the letters and the paper on which they are printed.You are so engrossed in the letters that you forget about the paper, but the Enlightened sees the paper as the substratum whether the letters appear on it or not.

This is still more succinctly stated as follows:

The Vedantins do not say that the world is unreal. That is a misunderstanding. If they did, what would be the meaning of the Vedantic text: ‘All this is Brahman’? They only mean that the world is unreal as world but real as Self. If you regard the world as non-self, it is not real. Everything, whether you call it illusion (Maya) or Divine Play (Lila) or Energy (Shakti) must be within the Self and not apart from it.

Source: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words Edited By ARTHUR OSBORNE


Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 10:45:56 AM »

Dear prasanth,

The world is mithya and this is the way the sadhaka should pursue
his sadhana.  Upon realization, the world becomes Real, Brahma swarupam.  Bhagavan Ramana showed this to His Mother, when
some weary labourers came to Skandasramam and asked for some
rice mixed in cold water.  Amma was reluctant because she had
not yet taken her food and it will be sesham, if labourers are served
before hand.  But Bhagavan Ramana told her:  Amma, do you think
these people are labourers?  They are all Brahmaswarupam.  Amma
looked at them, and everyone was appearing as Arunchaleswara
and Apeetakuchambal! The scriptures say that when Desikan shows the Swarupam to the disciple, the disciple understood it instantly.

Arunachala Siva.   

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 02:07:42 PM »
Biggest confusion that dualists had with Advaitha as I know it - in many books is not getting the meaning of "Real" as used in Advaitha. It is NOT THE ENGLISH meaning of "real" as Bhagawan rightly explains

Sanjay
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:47:08 PM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 02:12:13 PM »
Dear Sanjaya Ganesh,

Reality means in effect, as IT EXISTS. ETERNALLY. UNBORN, UNDYING, EVER PRESENT.  NEVER CHANGING.

That which changes is unreal, will not be eternal, will be dying one day, will not be present always.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 04:52:25 PM »

The world's position as per Sri Bhagavn's techings is not permanently unreal or permanently real. In Sanskrit, they call it
as mithya, it is neither Satya or asatya but mithya.  It is seemingly real and seemingly unreal.  During sadhana one should
consider it only as unreal, so that he can turn the mind inward with the mind jumping outside to the world, the objective reality.
After self realization, the world looks as Brahma Swarupam, as real as Brahman.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 05:11:16 PM »
Dear Tusnim

We cannot take the rope and snake here.  We are talking about the world. The world will definitely shine as Brahma Swaupam
upon realization.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 05:41:01 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Please read Arunachala Pancharatnam last verse. Contemplate. If for a realized soul every form is Brahma Swrupam,
why not the world?

Arunachala Siva,.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 06:11:37 PM »
Is not the rope or snake also in the world?  When a rope could be seen as Brahmaswarupam, why not the world that contains
rope and also many many things, creatures, human beings, etc.,?

Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam says: unnai kaNdu ellamum un uruvAi..... ellam means all things

Arunachala Siva. 

ramanaduli

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Re: Ramana Maharshi about The World – Real Or Illusion?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 08:31:05 AM »
Dear sir,

When all swarupam is mithya, how it becomes brahmaswarupam. That means the swarupam which does not have any shape, colour or taste is it brahmaswarupam. or the power which helps to identify all real, unreal, satya or asatya is brahmaswarupam. Here the power which is behind the five senses is consiousness which does not have shape or swarupam. Ultimately brahmaswarupam is consiousness is it correct?

Can anybody explain it?

Ramanaduli