Author Topic: where is the room for doubt VI  (Read 1696 times)

SLakshmi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
where is the room for doubt VI
« on: June 20, 2010, 10:54:56 PM »
A visitor introduced by T.S.R asked bhagavan whether by doing annual ceremonies, etc, to the dead we can confer any benefit on them. To this bhagavan replied " yes. it all depends on one's belief."

Q: If such rites as the annual ceremony performed by descendents are able to do away with the karma of the dead, it seems to strike at the root of the theory of karma. For then a man may escape the evil consequences of his bad acts through the help of the rites performed by his sons etc.

A: Such rites only help the desceased to a small extent. It on the same principle that prayaschittam and good deeds are said to mitigate the evil consequences of one's bad actions.

Sri.Devaraja Mudaliar continues to ask more on the same..

"Till three years ago, I was under the impression that doing annual ceremonies to the dead would confer benefit on them so long as they are not reborn." bhagavan intervened with the remark, " They will benefit though they are reborn several times and there is an angency to looks after all this".

After a while I said " bhagavan used to say that if one believes in the existance of this world, one should also believe in the existance of other worlds." bhagavan said it was so. I asked "the jnani transcends all stages and he is not bound by any karma (vidhi or nisheda). The ajnani shoul do his own dharma prescribed by sastras till he gets jnana. But while attempting to reach jnana will he be held responsible to the consequences of not doing the ordinary karma or will he be presumed to have done all this karma, just as a person reading in a higher class is presumed to have finished the lower classes?"

bhgavan said "It depends on the superiorty of the path one pursues. Unless a person has finished [in this or previous birth] the other paths, he will not purusue the jnana path; and he need not bother himself that he has not done the various karmas prescribed by sastras. But he should not wilfully transgress the sastraic injunctions by doing things prihibited by them."

[Day by Day, 341]

ramana_maharshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Re: where is the room for doubt VI
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 11:19:34 PM »
Dear Lakshmi Garu,

In case of Muruganar, however, since Bhagavan Ramana had felt that there was no such thing required by him, since he had crossed those paths of household duties, once remarked, when Muruganar brought one big jack fruit to the Asramam.

"O You have brought a jack fruit as offering to devotees, who are sitting for lunch in memory of your mother! Have you still not left those rituals?"

SLakshmi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
Re: where is the room for doubt VI
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 08:16:25 AM »
yes prasanthji, you are absolutely right. there is another story about sh.TK Sundaresa Iyer

One Amavasya (new moon day) all the Ashram inmates were
sitting down for breakfast in the dining room. I was standing and
looking on. Bhagavan asked me to sit down for breakfast. I said
that I had to perform my late father's ceremony on that day and
would eat nothing (Usually the ceremonies are performed to
enable the ancestors to go to heaven). Bhagavan retorted that my
father was already in heaven and there was nothing more to be
done for him. My taking breakfast would not hurt him in any
way. I still hesitated, accustomed as I was to age-old tradition.
Bhagavan got up, made me sit down and eat some rice cakes.
From that day I gave up performing ceremonies for ancestors.

_______


I was wondering if orthodoxy also came within the purview of following rituals etc. Because sri bhagavan did not completely follow them. rather he tried to eliminate any sense of those within the inmates of the ashram and his own mother!

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47994
    • View Profile
Re: where is the room for doubt VI
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 09:20:24 AM »

Dear SLakshmi, prasanth,

Yes. Bhagavan Ramana prescribed leaving away of the karmas only
when the devotees' had matured.  He specifically did this for Muruganar and told him not to perform annual ceremonies etc.,
Only a person who had conquered the dyads and whose karma and maya had been overcome, with only some traces of ego still left
behind, can ignore these ceremonies and sastraic practices.  But
definitely not others.  Bhagavan Ramana also said to M. Sivaprakasam Pillai not to remove his tuft, but to continue to have
it.  Pillai had said this in one of his poems:  "Acharam videl anaratham ahum enran guru.."

Once there was a lunar eclipse just happening during night dinner
time.  The Sarvadikari had preponed the evening meal.  When the
bell rang, Bhagavan asked:  Why bell now for meal?  The devotees
explained.  Bhagavan went for night meal in the usual time only
and not during preponed time.  Some devotees went for the early
meal that evening.  Bhagavan Ramana did not object.  Some others had dined with Him and Bhagavan did not object either.

Only when the full tonsuring takes place (when every karma has been conquered) one can ignore the sastras.  Sri Arunachala Aksharama Mana Maalai, Verse 85 reads:

How wonderful, it is that You have shaved my head clean, O
Arunachala and are now dancing a joyous dance in the Heart's
vast empty space?
   
Arunachala Siva.   

ramana_maharshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Re: where is the room for doubt VI
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 01:16:37 PM »
you are right Subramanian garu.