Author Topic: Japa - Observe the source ?  (Read 3336 times)

srkudai

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Japa - Observe the source ?
« on: June 17, 2010, 12:05:28 PM »
Today morning, I was doing my japa, when the thought "Ramana says observe from where this mantra arises" arose in me.
I stopped japa for a moment, trying to understand what Ramana might mean!

During japa, one is essentially supposed to keep the mind on the mantra. Everytime mind moves away from the mantra, one should bring it back to the mantra.
But here, Ramana seems to be suggesting that one should keep the mind at the Heart! How can that be helpful?

I thought for some time and then continued Japa : with my mind on the mantra itself, as usual.

And then, I got some clarity. I thought, i should write about it here.

Suppose I am repeating "OM" , so there is "OM" gap "OM" gap "OM" gap ...
this is the ideal case. No other thought intervenes.
Here, what is the source of OM ? What ever is there before OM. That is "void", "gap" ... Emptiness ... or Pure Consciousness.

hence, to remain with the source is to remain as Consciousness -- these gaps or voids are actually states of samadhi. states of no thought... when one is able to elongate these voids in between the mantra ... one is able to remain thoughtless for a few moments... one is able to remain as pure consciousness in those moments.

There are two interpretations of "thoughtlessness" here. One is that no thought is able to "deviate" our mind from the next mantra. The other is no thought is there at all. both are equally valid.

ultimately, the aim of japa is to remain established in samadhi. The aim of samadhi is vasana skhaya [destruction of latent tendencies] and thus through repeated practice of samadhi a sadhaka [who knows the Truth --- if someone without self knowledge : sravana and manana does it, he may gain concentration but will continue to remain ignorant until the Truth is learnt. The mind is purified.] gains purity of mind and will be able to Remain established in Self.

This practice is not different from Self inquiry, as I understand it.

Intially one should practice japa with shorter gaps... infact, that is the only way one can do it, remaining as Self between two mantras and during the whole repetitions.... as one gains in practice, one can increase the gaps... and then finally remain without the mind running "automatically"

Love!
Silence











« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 12:10:16 PM by srkudai »

Nagaraj

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 12:34:55 PM »
Dear I,

Very nice post..

I would like to add further, some of my experiences, after such an enquiry as to where from the sound originates, the need to utter the mantra, naama or Om, ends invariably. what is left thereon is simple awareness, we could simply say, an awareness of blankness! "I am" feeling. Just I am !

After a while, this awareness turns its attention on that which is in movement, begins to simply observe the breath in and breath out and then the only other thing there is awareness about is the heart beats.

At this stage, I find myself, that in no way could I stop the perception of my own heartbeats and the movement of prana. There is tremendous relaxation, the breath is normalised. The movement of body gets reduced, as in there is no more any need to move the body for any purpose. the only purpose for which the muscles seem to move is intake and outake of air and heart beat.

On further observationm, may be voluntarily or involuntarily, the breath in and out frequency reduces drastically i.e. in a minute(vague idea), of an average of only about 4 - 6 breaths.

Therefore, even further, I feel, it is essential to enquire where form the sounds of heart beats is originating and where from is the need to breath air in and out is originating. It is so very subtle, I have not been able to go in further.

and then, due to the pull of Vasanas, after some time, slowly the awareness begins to move back to the world. Prarabdha

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 01:59:16 PM »
Quote
Yes, invariably after some time, the need for japa ends.

I somehow donot agree with the above statement.

Where is the need for stopping japa?

Does not waves belong to ocean? Will the ocean loses its identity even though waves come and go?

So here japa relates to waves and our real nature 'I am' relates to ocean.

Moreover However hard we may try it is not possible for us to give up japa though as said earlier there is no need at all to think that invariably after some time, the need for japa ends.

Few examples in bhagavan's life

1) After Bhagavan's mother Mahanirvana that entire night passed in the singing of devotional songs.

2) "On the evening of 14 April 1950 At about 5 o'clock, Precisely at that moment devotees started chanting 'Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva'. When Sri Ramana heard this his face lit up with radiant joy.

3) Bhagavan as known himself wrote many devotional songs in praise of arunachala siva like Arunachala Aksharamana Malai, Appalam Song ...

4) The daily routine at Skandashram was subject to strict regulation.At four o’clock in the morning Alagammal would rise and sing devotional songs, while the other community members meditated.Then Akshara Mana Malai (The Marital Garland of Letters) was recited.

5) At five in the afternoon in ramana ashramam music begins from the radio in the hall. The songs of Tyagaraja, the poet, singer-bhakta, siddha, can be heard with enjoyment. The Sage is a lover of the fine arts. He is an aesthete who can appreciate the sweetness of music.

6) Devaraja Mudaliar says,When touching songs were recited or read out before him, or when he himself was reading out to us poems or passages from the lives or works of famous saints, he would be moved to tears and would find it impossible to restrain them.

7) Bhagavan's famous devotee murugunar wrote many songs in praise of bhagavan.


Moreover Adi sankara himself has wrote N number of stotras in praise of many gods.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 02:21:58 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »

Nagaraj

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 02:26:25 PM »
Dear I,

Where is butter to be found in Curd? is not butter found in Curd itself after Kaivalyam? The need for Japa ends involuntarily, there is already ajapa japa in the form of silence, Mauna. Therefore Japa does not really end actually. Is not Silence, Mauna a japa? can there be a Japa better than Mauna?

Thats the Kaivalyam, we begin by mentally doing Nama Japa, Pranava Japa, etc... and then just like how butter is removed from Curd, that silence is arrived at, that Navaneta, that shuddha Spatika. that silence or blankness is the real ajapa japa.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramanaduli

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 05:50:18 PM »
Dear Udai ji,

How it is possible yatra yatra mono.... when the mind becomes alive there would be virthi. In my understanding there should not be mind. For having no mind's activities japa, puja, vrath, sitting at Guru's feet or attending satsang can help us. But the aim is mind should be disolved in our practices. Mind will be there but i.e. never mind stage. This is how my mind understood.


Ramanaduli

silentgreen

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 07:56:03 PM »
Japa or Self-Enquiry becomes very effective when prior to commencing them, the mind is filled with the devotional mood, the "I" which keeps its hood raised is brought down to the ground level of humility. The devotion and humility clears away the obstacles and during Japa, the heart space opens up and one feels the inner bliss.

It is better to do Japa slowly keeping the awareness in the cavity of the heart rather than crowding the mind with words.

Doing Japa during the early morning is very effective. When practiced day after day, a part of the mind always remains in the heart space and the anahat may start for some devotees.

A blissful space gets opened up within which is such that excitement, anger etc does not much leave marks on the mind. A person feels real contentment. When in very disturbing conditions or health problems, the mind gets disturbed, when the disturbing influence is over, the mind clouds easily vanish within the inner space without leaving a mark.

When bliss is felt within the inner space, one will no longer like to read books. One would more like to sit quietly rather than read books. Because the greatest treasure within the heart has started unfolding.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

amiatall

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 12:26:52 AM »
My experience basicly is the same you have mentioned (srkudai and Nagaraj).

Whatever is being done and experienced one should seek the source unceasingly.

Gap... mantra.. gap.. mantra...

The gap should be seen always even while mantra goes on.

I noticed something interesting too, which is quite a powerful tool for subduing a mind: when one sits and relaxes, one should try to see the FACT of effort which mind tries to make in either way, it is not like watching the mind movements, but the very FACT of effort or very FACT of starting, i don't know if i am clear, but it stops mind from any kind of effort for a split second and the very observing of this fact,  makes her(mind) helpless and she surrenders immediately together with this observation of fact.

ramanaduli

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 12:49:35 AM »
Dear Amiatall ji,

You said, "I noticed something.. " which "I" you mentioned. Because my understanding is... when we experience something or watching the mind etc. etc. we need mind..
In the same way the gap also can be watched the mind is not it.
I hope you would clarify this doubt of mine. I have been struggling to find out this answer.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 10:22:19 AM »

Japa starts as a sound-producing Japa to begin with.  Then it becomes
silent Japa without any sound from lips.  It is then Ajapa japa.  Here
you are closer to the Source.  When this also subsides totally, there
is only Silence, no Japa, no Ajapa, only Silence that passeth understanding.  The mind, then can curl up into the Self.

Saint Manikkavachagar says: It is the state of seeing without seeing
and thinking without thinking, in Tiruvachakam.

Arunachala Siva.   
 

amiatall

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 10:08:33 PM »
Dear Amiatall ji,

You said, "I noticed something.. " which "I" you mentioned. Because my understanding is... when we experience something or watching the mind etc. etc. we need mind..
In the same way the gap also can be watched the mind is not it.
I hope you would clarify this doubt of mine. I have been struggling to find out this answer.


Ramanaduli


Dear Ramanduli,

If I follow you correctly your question is 'which "I" notices' ?

As I am not native english speaker so i ask you
could you please clarify/rewrite the doubt/question of yours?

Thanks in advance  ;)

ramanaduli

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2010, 12:51:16 AM »
Dear Amiatall ji

I am also very poor in english as well as in this Atma vichara path. But my mind found this path is the correct one.
When I read Bhagavan's teachings my clouded mind gets free for time being. Bhagavan explained reapeated clearly that much I can understand. But when I keep His book down and get into the worldly matters everything goes in the wind. Of course this forum also helps me lots and lots. There are many seniors members who understood very well and explains well also. When I sit alone and introspect me at first I can see my mind, then I watch the mind, during my puja and mantra. I can say what happened. I try to go to source .. Then I do not know who watches whom.... Everything becomes confuse. Then I read some saints life stories then I tell my self Bhagavan whatever I am doing, you are watching please guide me.
When I read the posts... they say some gap in between mantra and you also accepted .. Here I want to know who is the seer to see the gap. That is all. Because I do not find any gap. But I read the gap only leads us to silence which is our true nature i.e. self.
I cannot go to the source that is the main problem. I think this forum acts like a study group that is all.
The soul which can reach to the source may help to fellow souls. This is reason I asked you.
Thank you,


Ramanaduli

snow

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Re: Japa - Observe the source ?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 02:09:18 PM »
Self enquiry itself is fixing the mind at its source (which is also the source of the sound of the mantra).


"To ask the mind to kill itself is like making the thief the policeman. He will go with you and pretend to catch the thief, but nothing will be gained. So you must turn inward, and see from whence the mind rises and then it will cease to exist."

Breath and mind arise from the same source and when one of them is controlled the other is also controlled. As a matter of fact, in the quest method — which is more correctly `Whence am I?' and not merely `Who am I?' — we are not simply trying to eliminate, saying `We are not the body, nor the senses and so on', to reach what remains as the ultimate reality, but we are trying to find out whence the `I-thought' or the ego arises within us. The method contains within it, though implicitly and not expressly, the watching of the breath. When we watch wherefrom the `I-thought' arises, we are necessarily watching the source of breath also, as the `I-thought' and the breath arise from the same source.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 02:10:56 PM by snow »