Author Topic: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real  (Read 16080 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2010, 04:17:06 PM »
Arunachala, is verily our own Self. It is reflection of our True Self.

The very first Shloka in Aksharamana Malai goes thus:

Arunachalamena Ahameninaippavar Ahattaiveraruppay Arunachala.

1. Thou dost root out the ego of those who meditate on Thee in the heart, O Arunachala!
2. Thou dost root out the ego of those who dwell on their (spiritual) identity with Thee, O Arunachala!

Eventually even rope has to go. The Rope which is mistaken for a snake is verily our selves - our false self.

Even that a Rope is existing is also a knowledge.

That I real Self is beyond any description, attributeless. There is absolutely no second to it, to even compare. For even for knowledge, we need a second to make it as a knowledge.

It itself is.


 
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2010, 04:19:47 PM »
Arunachala, is our true Self. Sri Bhagavan has said that our Self is our True Guru. Arunachala, as our Self is a grace of our True Self, which keeps reminding us about our true nature. It is reminding us to descard the robes of all the character we are playing and just remain as Self. When we really descard all roles we are playing, what role do we have to play? That is when we will be truly naked. Spatika!

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2010, 04:22:01 PM »
Dear silentgreen garu,

Quote
If hunger, thirst etc are non-existent (mithya), why does the jnani continue to have food and drinks?

We should not mix up dream state and waking state.

As bhagavan says,Ideally waking and dream states are same and just as in dream state where we try to fill our hunger with dream food in waking state he try to fill our hunger with waking food.But as known both waking and dream are not our real nature.

Quote
If yesterday we had a dream, we cannot say that the dream was non-existent. The dream took place and it ended. Only the dream world which I saw yesterday is non-existent today. If the dream itself was non-existent, we will say "yesterday I did not have a dream".

We can surely say that dream was non-existent because all dreams are happening only in mind which itself is temporary as it stays with us in dream/waking states and disappears in deep sleep.


Quote
Pot is made up of mud. If matter and mind are mithya, what are they made up of?

Matter is neither true nor false.matter if known that it is brahman only is true but if seen outside brahman is false.

Sri Adi Sankara Says

a) world is false
b) brahman is real
c) world is brahman


As i told earlier Sri Sundara Chaitanya Swami garu says,

Scriptures tells us to enquire the relationship between god and world but it does not tell that god created the world and etc etc... it is like relationship between pot and mud. mud is god and pot is world. So pot is neither true not false but it is dependent on mud. because pot can break any moment and finally only mud is remaining.

Ideally there is no relation between pot and mud as pot is nothing but mud and there are no 2 entities to have relationship.Similarly between god and world.


Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 04:28:13 PM »
When the false 'I' is reminded that it is NOT, there arises a tremendous fear of oblivion, of non existence. The false 'I' does not want to let go its identity - the characters it has been playing. It cannot imagine itself without any attribute. This fear keeps the false 'I' going.

This is the real fear of Death, the scriptures talk about, not the clinical death. The death of 'I'.

When Bhagavan faced the death experience, he was down with some fever and he faced it upfront and realised the true Self. There was no more necessity for Him to play any more roles, the false 'I' just dropped of like a dry leaf in a tree.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2010, 04:49:22 PM »
and moreover,

1.
Quote
If hunger, thirst etc are non-existent (mithya), why does the jnani continue to have food and drinks?
2.
Quote
If yesterday we had a dream, we cannot say that the dream was non-existent. The dream took place and it ended. Only the dream world which I saw
    yesterday is non-existent today. If the dream itself was non-existent, we will say "yesterday I did not have a dream".
3.
Quote
Pot is made up of mud. If matter and mind are mithya, what are they made up of?

all these only exists on the seer's mind and never for a Jnani. The Jnani only sees Self in everything (infact, there is no everything at all) The Jnani sees only Self and Self alone. This "Everything" exist only in the Seer's mind

For a Jnani, the Seer and Seen are just One as Self

So long there is a Seer, so long there would be a Seen.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2010, 05:19:08 PM »
well said udai garu and Nagaraj garu.

silentgreen

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2010, 06:06:55 PM »
[q]The dream was there as long as you were seeing it. This world too is there as long as you are seeing it![/q]

What is Self Realisation in this scheme? Is it also a part of the dream?
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2010, 06:21:29 PM »
Dear SilentGreen garu,

There is an elephant in the forest.The elephant is scared about the Lion in the forest.The Lion has not appeared before the elephant in recent times. It was once sighted and the elephant became totally afraid of lion. One night, the elephant dreamt of the Lion, it got scared even its dream about the Lion. It woke up with a huge cry.There was not Lion. Only it was there. The elephant got self realized.

All are dreams. But unlike the elephant's dream, our dream about Bhagavan Ramana is a pleasant dream. But this dream should also end one day, when you would really wake up.That waking is the realization.

...After an ‘I’ rises, everything rises… -- Ulladu Narpadu verse 23

Bhagavan Ramana used to tell one story:

Once two persons were sleeping in a hall.Both were poor.During the sleep, one man was dreaming.He dreamt that he is a very rich person and he has stacked all the gold and currency in a cupboard.And a thief comes and takes away all the gold and currency, and runs away.The dreaming man shouts in shock: "O! the thief is running away with all my wealth.

Please catch him, please catch him...."

The other man woke up. He was not dreaming anything, neither the thief, nor the gold and currency. What shall he do? Will he run out to the front yard to catch the thief? Will he rush to the police station to complain? He will simply wake that wailing man from sleep and dream.

The Guru is like the man who wakes us, the dreaming men, up.The only difference is that the Guru is within your Heart.

The state where "I-thought" is not there, even in a trice,is Swarupam. This is called as Silence. I am Swarupam.The world is Swarupam. Isvara is Swarupam. All are Siva-Swarupam."

When we are not with Self, then we are with dreams. so, to contact us, It is something like Ramana comes to our dream by taking a form of a human body and says to us please come out of dreams...

More details in below link

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=3713.msg0#new

Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2010, 06:22:30 PM »
Who is the one that is seeking Self Realisation here? is it not the false 'I' again? Does the Self ever require to realise itself ?

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

silentgreen

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2010, 07:09:54 PM »
Quote
But this dream should also end one day, when you would really wake up.That waking is the realization.

Today I woke up from yesterday's dream. But this is also a dream. Tomorrow when I wake up from today's dream, what is the guarantee that it is again not a dream? How many nested levels of dreams are there? Alternatively what are the indicators that a person is self-realized?
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2010, 08:21:33 PM »
Quote
what are the indicators that a person is self-realized?

Silent Green Garu,

Now this is really a very good question.

Few indicators of a self-realised persons according to me

a) They donot find happiness in external objects
b) they live a very simple life and maintain austerity and simplicity.
c) no attachment towards wealth etc
d) for them god/self is only business they are living in this world and nothing else bother's them.
e) they live their life by begging alms if needed also.
f) they renounce "women and gold"
..... list can go on and on

Now it depends on our prarabdha karma to find out self-realised jnanis in this world.

If our prarabdha is good (ofcourse it is good for all members in our forum) then we find real self-realised jnani like guru ramana

If our prarabdha is sick then we may settle in some fake swamiji's (Ex: sex scam hit swami nityananda) feet and ruin our spiritual journey which can demoralise us to great extent.

Now if you show me a guru and ask me whether he is really self-realised or not then my answer is I DONOT KNOW.

Because he may tell you something but he may actually may not implement the same or he may secretly enjoy 'women and gold'  :D


Maybe other members also can give their opinions so that we can have more clear picture regarding this.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 08:25:13 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »

Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2010, 09:12:45 PM »
Honestly, the very need to know or find out if one is realised has to end.

Firstly, why do we need such indicators? After all who are we to determine or say ok, Such and such a person has such qualities, He is a Liberated soul.... Why ...

What are we going to gain by knowing whether a person is realised or not?

If he is a realised person, how does it affect us or if he is not realiased person how does it affect us?

There is no need to know if one person is realised at all...

Even for that matter, To me it does not even matter to me whether Sri Ramana Maharshi is realised or not. It is only the pull of love or compassion that is worth looking into.

This entire business of Realisation, etc.. is all only the play of our limited 'I' In the name of realising itself (false 'I') it is just continuing.

Sharanagathi is the only way for this limited I.

The only thing the limited 'I' could do is to just realise its limitedness. That is all.

Salutations to Sri Ramana





॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

amiatall

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2010, 09:27:25 PM »
Who is the one that is seeking Self Realisation here? is it not the false 'I' again? Does the Self ever require to realise itself ?

Are there two Is? One is false and one is true?

Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2010, 09:59:47 PM »
"That which makes the enquiry is the Ego; the Self about which the enquiry is made is also is the Ego, as a result of enquiry Ego ceases to be and only Self is found effulgent"

Sri Ramana Maharshi
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

amiatall

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Re: Ramana Maharshi says to see god in other external objects is not real
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2010, 12:06:47 AM »
I asks I about I and is left as I to shine alone

that's great mystery indeed  ;)