Author Topic: Ramana Maharshi Says Mukti Has To Be Gained In Full Awareness (Waking State)  (Read 1162 times)

ramana_maharshi

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15th April, 1937

A frequent visitor to the Ashram is cogitating over the problem of Maya and its relation to the waking and dream states.

V. Is there any genuine difference between the experience of jagrat and that of dreams?

Bh. None, except that jagrat appears to be more enduring than the other to the person who is in jagrat, though not so to the dreamer himself. The person in jagrat
relates his dream to have sometimes covered hundreds of years, hence he calls it transitory, whereas actually there is not the slightest difference between the nature
of the two states.

V. There is this difference: each time we return to jagrat, we come to the same place, same people, same activities and interests, which is not the case with going to the svapna state.

Bh. This is because things move very rapidly in dreams, as they appear now to you in jagrat. But each time you go to the dream world do you feel being a stranger in it? Do you not feel thoroughly at home with the people and places as you do here? Don’t you sometimes dream of being a minister, or meeting your father who had died in jagrat long ago, or seeing God seated on a throne,etc., without noticing any incongruity in it? The dream is as real then to you as jagrat is now. Where is the difference? If you call the dream illusion, why do you not do so to jagrat also?


C. I suppose efforts have to be made in the waking state, which implies that moksha can be gained only in jagrat.

Bh. Quite so, awareness is necessary for mind control; otherwise who is to make the effort? You cannot make it in sleep or under the influence of drugs. Also mukti has to be gained in full awareness, because the Reality itself is pure awareness.

V. Arjuna saw the Divine Form of Sri Krishna. Was that vision true?

Bh. Sri Krishna started the discourse in Chapter II of the Bhagavad Gita with: “I have no form,” etc., but in Chapter XI, He said: “I transcend the three worlds . . . ,” yet Arjuna saw these in Him.

Again Sri Krishna said: “I am Time.” Does time have a form? If the universe is His form, should it not be uniform and changeless, He being the Changeless One?

The solution to these apparent contradictions lies in His statement to Arjuna: “See in Me all you desire to see. . . ,” which means that His form varies according to the desires and conceptions of the seer.


Men speak of divine visions, yet paint them differently with the seer himself in the scene. Even hypnotists can make one see strange scenes and phenomena, which you condemn as tricks and jugglery,whereas the former you extol as Divine. Why is this difference?

The fact is that all sights are unreal, whether they come from the senses or the mind as pure concepts.THIS IS THE TRUTH.

Source: GURU RAMANA MEMORIES AND NOTES By S. S. COHEN


Subramanian.R

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Dear prasanth,

Yes.  The Self can be attained only through Sadhana in the waking
state.  That is why Bhagavan Ramana said:  If you make self enquiry, you may sometimes go in sleep, but continue the enquiry after waking up.  The Self can be attained only through wakeful meditation.  Once it is attained the Self abidance is there permanently in all the three states.  Because, the mind alone makes these three states and also the world and the objects.  For an egoless person, there is no time and space.  He is in a sleepless sleep for ever, abiding in the Self.

Arunachala Siva.