Author Topic: Ramana Maharshi Says Due To The Samskaras Of The Jagrat State We Remember Dreams  (Read 2232 times)

ramana_maharshi

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15th April, l937

Talk 399.


Mr. Bose, the Bengali Engineer, has since read Gaudapada Karikas and Sir S. Radhakrishnan’s Indian Philosophy and so asked questions as follows:

D.: Is there any genuine difference between dream experience and waking state?

M.: Because you find the dream creations transitory in relation to the waking state there is said to be a difference. The difference is only apparent and not real.

D.: Is the waking state independent of existing objects?

M.: Were it so, the objects must exist without the seer; that is to say,the object must tell you that it exists. Does it do so? For example,does a cow moving in front of you say that she is moving? Or do you say of your own accord “There is a cow moving”? The objects exist because of the seer cognising them.


D.: Gaudapada in Mandukya Karikas says that there is no difference between the two states from the standpoint of Reality-Absolute.

M.: Of course not.

D.: I believe Bhagavan also says so. Prof. Radhakrishnan in his Indian Philosophy says that in his Brahma Sutra Commentary Sri Sankara makes a distinction between the two states. Is it a fact? If so, what is it? How can there be any distinction from the viewpoint of reality? So long as the mind exists in any form there will be distinction.But from the standpoint of Atman, non-dual Brahman, can there be any distinction?

M.: The dream is for the one who says that he is awake. In fact,wakefulness and dream are equally unreal from the standpoint of the Absolute.

D.: The dream world is not purposeful as the jagrat world, because we do not feel that wants are satisfied.

M.: You are not right. There are thirst and hunger in dream also. You might have had your fill and kept over the remaining food for the next day. Nevertheless you feel hungry in dream. This food does not help you. Your dream-hunger can be satisfied only by eating dream-food. Dream-wants are satisfied by dream-creations only.


D.: We recollect our dreams in our jagrat but not vice-versa.

M.: Not right again. In the dream you identify yourself with the one now speaking.

D.: But we do not know that we are dreaming as apart from waking as we do now.

M.: The dream is the combination of jagrat(waking state) and sushupti(Deep dreamless sleep). It is due to the samskaras of the jagrat state. Hence we remember dreams at present. Samskaras are not formed contrariwise; therefore also we are not aware of the dream and jagrat simultaneously. Still everyone will recollect strange perplexities in dream. One wonders if he dreams or is awake. He argues and determines that he is only awake. When really awake, he finds that it was all only a dream.

D : Is it a fact that dreams arise because of the impressions received during the waking state?

A. No,it is not true.In your dream you see many new things and many new people whom you have never seen before in your walking state.You may even see a second dream within the dream.After waking up from the second dream,you feel that you have woken up,but that is the waking state of the first dream.In the same way,man wakes up daily,but it is not to a real waking state.


Sources:

1) Ramana Maharshi's introduction and teachings By Swami Rama Thirtha Original in Gujarathi
2) Arunchala's Ramana Volume VI Book
3) Talks With Ramana Maharshi Book


Subramanian.R

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Dear prasanth,

Nice story.  Bhagavan Ramana and Gaudapada and Sankara had
the common view point.  Bhagavan Ramana took His avatara to
wake us from the long dream called the wakeful state. 

There was one story about Bhagavan Ramana.  When some old
lady came and reported to Him about her suffering in the hands
of an arrogant daughter in law, who did not give her proper clothing
and food, Bhagavan Ramana, even to her, said:  "Are you having
these sufferings in your deep sleep?  Why not you consider these
sufferings also as a long dream and sleep peacefully praying to
Sri Arunachaleswara?" 

Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman used to tell a story.  Once two
persons were sleeping.  One did not get proper sleep and was
awake during his sleep.  The other had a dreamful sleep.  He
found that he was getting a lot of gold coins, and he had kept
them safe in the cupboard.  Suddenly that night, a thief came
and stole away all the gold and was running away from his house.
The dreamer friend cried Oh, thief, thief.....  The other man who
was awake near him, will he go to chase the thief? or will he go
to the police station to complain about the theft?  What will he
do?  He will only wake up the dreamer, with a pull and make him
sit up on his bed.  Bhagavan Ramana is doing the same thing
to "wake" us from the long dream of wakefulness.  He will not
work out methods to solve the theft or catch the thief, that is
life full of miseries and pains.

Arunachala Siva.   

ramana_maharshi

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nice story by Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman garu.