Author Topic: Poonja & David Godman  (Read 5614 times)

soham3

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Poonja & David Godman
« on: October 31, 2007, 01:47:31 PM »
David seems to have left behind luxury of western life to spread message of Ramana & Poonja.
  Poonja  seems to be worthy successor of Ramana. He discards  evolution & says self-realization is immediate & direct without any effort.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

sonagiri

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Re: Poonja & David Godman
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2007, 10:23:52 PM »
Bhagavan had no successors, worthy or otherwise, because he did not found a lineage. So far as I am aware, Poonja never claimed that he was a 'successor' to Bhagavan. He just said that he was passing on the message of his Master. People who claim that they are 'in the lineage' of Ramana Maharshi are usually those who are trying to boost their credibility in the spiritual-teacher world by claiming some sort of relationship with Bhagavan, or a teaching transmission from him.

leslie

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Re: Poonja & David Godman
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2008, 09:18:46 AM »
The suggestion of a successor to Ramana is anathama to his teachings. Who is there to succeed and who to be succeeded? Many people had the deepest experiences in Ramana's presence. Those best known in the west are the ones David Godman wrote books about. What about all the others, many of whom are named in books at Ramanasramam about and/or by Ramana's various devotees; which naturally begs the question - what lineage? The lineage business seems to have sprung up with the so-called successors of Papaji, who was only one of many, many people who made claim to breakthrough experiences in Ramana's presence. The so-called Papaji lineage has nothing to do with Ramana.

sonagiri

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Re: Poonja & David Godman
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 10:59:56 AM »
In physical terms lineage simply means 'ancestry'. My physical lineage includes my mother and father, my grandparents, and so on. However, in spiritual terms, lineage usually denotes an authority to teach, an authority that is specifically given by one's teacher. There is no Ramana lineage because Ramana never authorised anyone to teach.
   From what I have read of Papaji, he did not appoint a successor to carry on with his teaching work. He did, though, encourage a few people to verbally disseminate his teachings. When he was asked about their status, he said they he had appointed them as 'messengers', and that they were not Gurus in their own right. On other occasions he called them 'ambassadors', noting that ambassadors merely have the authority to pass on the instructions of their government, implying that these people did not have any authority of their own.
   You cannot claim a spiritual ancestry unless the authority has been clearly given in a Guru-to-disciple transmission. Papaji's messengers who received their permission to teach from Papaji himself (and incidentally, many of the current teachers giving satsang in his name never received even that limited permission) can claim to be in a Papaji lineage, but none of them can legitimately claim to be in the Ramana lineage because no such lineage exists.
   In Nothing Ever Happened Papaji said in one of his answers that Bhagavan received his authority to teach from Arunachala, his Sadguru. I think that this is a reasonable statement, although it is not one that Bhagavan himself ever corroborated. In a more general answer Papaji said that it was the Self that empowered certain jnanis to teach by giving them the necessary power and authority to do their work. I think that this is also a reasonable statement.


N K Srinivasan

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Re: Poonja & David Godman
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 07:16:28 PM »
The concept of linaeage of a Guru or system applies to a tradition in which  specific mantra or artifact is passed on from Guru to disciple.In the case of Ramana he did not encourage any mantra diksha in the classical sense.So, Ramana did not have a successor nor did he authorize  a pontiff to teach.
Poonjaji  was one of the several devotees of Ramana to pick up the method of Self-enquiry and teach to others...Poonjaji also did not appoint any successor in the official sense.He had merely encouraged his chelas "to spread the message or teachings of his " --often diluted  or interpreted in his own way....That is alright...you can use the teachings of Poonjaji or Ramana in the manner you like....there is no lineage involved...IN a similar manner, can we say that all physics students who use Newton's laws and equations are in the lineage of Newton..that would be funny --to say the least.
It is better to use the expression ' tradition'---one teaches the tradition of Ramana or Poonjaji...the common expression in India for tradition is "sampradaya"...Thus we have several traditions or sampradaya even in Classical Indian music..that does not mean any official authorization.
 There are certain rituals which only people in a lineage can do...Thus we have nath lineage or Sufi lineage...But Ramana or Poonjaji were different...the lineage stamp is a clever method to attract spiritual seekers to your camp...that is Okay as a method of advertisement---like franchising your cookies.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Poonja & David Godman
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2008, 05:37:15 PM »
To name a successor for Ramana, or for, to treat Ramanasramam
a guru-peetam and find lineage to it is blashphemy.  Ramana is
an "avatar".  Do Dakshinamurthy and Skanda, have successors?