Author Topic: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex  (Read 27478 times)

soham3

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Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« on: October 31, 2007, 10:38:20 AM »
What were Bhgawan's views on sexual lives of people in the world ? Did he preach abstinence or moderation or he thought it to be immaterial ? Does sex block self-realization ?
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Purnama

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 03:57:36 AM »
In "Talks With Ramana Maharshi" for Bhagavan is quoted as saying that brahmacharya, traditionally understood as celibacy, should be understood as abidance in brahman or the Self rather than what is done or not done with the body.

siva

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 10:01:07 PM »
I fully agree with you. We don't ask is it eating a sin? No... why to worry about a natural activity.

Do i need  it ? that is the question. When one devotee was complaining to bhahawan that he was unable to control the desires, bhagawan replied in his usual style " Just see to whom those desires come to". The message is "always focus on sadhana, your very purpose of the life, unwanted things will fade away on it's own.

Bhagawan's grace will make it happen.

It is not appropriate to mention here, but thanks to osho who dared to speak out and removed the in depth guiltiness associated in sadhaka's.'

soham3

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2007, 05:57:47 PM »
In "Talks With Ramana Maharshi" for Bhagavan is quoted as saying that brahmacharya, traditionally understood as celibacy, should be understood as abidance in brahman or the Self rather than what is done or not done with the body.

Well said. So many spiritual big guns such as Sri Krishna or Shri Sathya Sai Baba Or Shree Osho Rajneesh do not consider sex as a taboo.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

mick hutchinson

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2008, 06:04:23 AM »
What about the story about Sanchara .
When his devotees asked him about sex he had no experience of it so he transferred himself into the body of a dying king  brought the kings body back to life ,,and gave the kings wives such a nice time that they sussed out what had happened !So they sent out people to find a Yogi who had been in a trance for a long time .They were told to kill him .The idea being that Sri Sanchara couldn't return to his Yogi body and the wives could keep him !!!! They failed !!! [ aaaaargh !!!] I read this in a book about Ramana but I don't recall which .
I guess the only thing is ,like everything else ,it's an illusion made up by the mind to get us to do something!!!!! [ LOL !! ]

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2008, 11:50:07 AM »
We have been seeing ordinary people and enlightened people,
living a celibate life, that is without sex.  But is there anybody,
who has not eaten throughout his life?  Hence eating and sex
cannot be compared. Both are thoughts but eating is necessary
to keep body and soul together, but not sex.  I have also thought
about Shankara's story.  Perhaps, he revived his annihilated mind
and breath and went into the King's body.  The famous Guru Stuti
has been translated by Bhagavan in beautiful verses.  Shankara
came back, with mind and breath into his own body, when the
work is over.  After that, he annihilated the mind and retained
his breath to live to complete 32 years of his life.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2008, 02:01:37 PM »
I further read David Godman's "Be as you are".  There is a beautiful
chapter (12) titled "Life in the world".  Someone asks, 'At  Sri Aurobindo
Asram, there is a rigid rule that married couples are permitted to live
there on condition, that there have no sexual intercourse'.  Bhagavan
answers:'What is the use of that?  If it exists in the mind, what is the
use of it, to force people to abstain?'  There is another questioner saying,
' I am carried away by the sight of the breasts of a young woman
neighbour...' etc., etc.,  Read Bhagavan's answer!  Wonderful!  He
assures us,  " Leave all your cleverness and come to me.  I shall
destroy the shackles of your mind."  Be the Self, you will have no
sex troubles.  Mind is the villain in all of us, whether it is anxiety,
obsession, compulsion, depression or dissociation.

mick hutchinson

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2008, 02:46:26 AM »
I see :D

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2008, 11:10:53 AM »
Dear mick,  kindly also read, Raju Balsekhar's  " Buddha,
Advaita and the Unbroken Whole".  Arunachala-Siva.

soham3

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2009, 10:44:12 PM »
Osho Rajneesh accepts sex as innate to all humans and then advises to follow meditations and techniques to transcend it. He has invented many methods.
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Graham

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2009, 07:17:10 AM »
From the Srimad Bhagavata -

Krishna's instructions to Uddhava - VII - IX

Sri Krishna answered:

“Your forebodings are well founded, O highly blessed Uddhava. Brahma, Lord Shiva, and all the guardians of the spheres have demanded My return to Vaikuntha. Besides, I have accomplished the task for which I descended to the earth with Balarama, except the extinction of the Yadu race, which is destined to perish by its own hand. On the seventh day from now Dwaraka will go under the sea. The world will be invaded by the spirit of Kali and will lose its auspiciousness as soon as I turn My back on it; for no sooner the Kali age moves in, righteousness will move out of it : people will develop a taste for unrighteous ways. You must not remain here, O good Uddhava, but shake off all attachment to your family and kinsmen and move about the world with a mind centred wholly on Me.

“You must always remember that whatever is thought by the mind, perceived by the eye and the ear, and spoken by the tongue is the creation of the mind and, therefore, illusory. The restless mind easily falls victim to the illusion of diversity, which leads to the conception of good and evil and the discrimination between prescribed action, inaction, and prohibited action. By controlling your mind and senses you will see the world in your own self, and your own self in Me, the Supreme Lord. Possessed of this knowledge, and immersed in the contentment of Self-realisation, you will experience no obstructions in life. He who rises above both good and evil will not refrain from a prohibited action out of fear of evil consequences, nor will he perform a prescribed action out of hope for rewards, but will act like a child who takes no thought of consequences. Being a friend to all, and possessing a serene mind which sees the world as Myself, you never again suffer the pangs of transmigration.

Uddhava said:

“It is for my highest good that You, the Embodiment the Soul and Goal of Yoga, are preaching the Yoga of Renunciation, which is extremely difficult to practise. I am very ignorant, O Lord, profoundly attached to my body and children, who are, after all, the creation of Your Maya. I pray You, O Master, to instruct me, Your servant, how to attain easily the sublime Renunciation of which You speak. There is no one other than Yourself either here on earth or among the gods who is qualified to teach the self-luminous Atman, the one and only Reality. Even Brahma is under the influence of Your Maya, for he looks upon the world as real. Afflicted as I am with grief for having to part with You, O Lord I seek Your guidance, You the friend of all, perfect, eternal and infinite, the omniscient Ruler of the universe Whose eternal abode is the transcendent Vaikuntha.”

The Lord answered:

“Those who take to the investigation into the nature of the world raise themselves above their sensuous cravings. The Self itself is the surest guide to itself through direct observation and inference. Men of right judgement and of knowledge of the secrets of Sankhya and Yoga end by directly perceiving Me as their own Self, possessing all the faculties (whereby the phenomena are perceived). Of all the forms which emanate from Me, I cherish most the human body, because through it, keen and vigilant seekers can have a direct knowledge of Me, who am otherwise difficult to perceive.

--------------

You can read the complete Uddhava Gita on this site which contains the clearest teaching on conduct for sadhakas - broken into three parts for ease of viewing:

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/articles/extract_srimad_bhagavatam_6.htm
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/articles/extract_srimad_bhagavatam_7.htm
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/articles/extract_srimad_bhagavatam_8.htm

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2009, 11:51:15 PM »
In some ways, to think Sex as a hinderance is the cause for the problem. If Sex is to be abhored, then it is questioning the very Nature/Self itself. Again, on enquiry, one will find that it is only an idea that sex is a problem. It is something so very common, its like as if on some ideas or misconceptions, one begins to abore passing the process of atending natures call. It is so very much necessary. whether or not the limited I concludes that attending natures call is good or bad, the body or the nature is least bothered about the opinion what the false I has about it (Sex).

Infact, in Vedanta, even Sex is considered a ritual, the act of Copulation is called "Garbha Daana" or Donation of Garbha or Life or Praana. In Shakti Upasana, what the Sadhaka widely sees as grace is the vital energy or what is called as 'Praana'. It is the same energy that transcends all or everything. What we understand by Self Enquiry, Shakthi Upasakas or more populaly, Sri Vidya Upasakas relate to the Self as the Shakthi Tatvam.

Take for example, the shastras of Shakthi cult, Soundarya Lahari, Devi Mahatmyam, Lalitha Sahasranamam, etc... in all these works one will find very exciting and explicit adoration of the Shakti, the Mother, the Goddess. In Lalitha Sahasranamam, the very 1st section deals with the "Sthoola Sharira" or Physical attributes of the Devi. It is intentional, to arouse the reader sensually, and then the Sahasranamam further explains the Praana or that vital energy that is the sensuality. Infact, the reader of the one who does Paarayana takes the position of Kama Deva, Verses like "Kaameshajnaata Soubhagya, Maardavoru Dvyaanvita", Only Kameshwaa is fortunate enough to know the details of the thighs of the Supreme Goddess." Kameswara prema rathna mani prathi pana sthani - "She who gave her breasts which are like the pot made of Rathna(precious stones) and has obtained the love of Kameshwara" just a couple for example is quoted here, Soundarya Lahari is veneration of the Beauty of the Goddess. It is very obvious, a real livelly or person who is "Alive" cannot but get aroused, this is the intention of Shakthi Upasakas, to get the sadhaka introduced to the vital energy, and then takes the Sadhaka - Kameshwara to itself - Fusion/Merging. How easier can it get than this Praana or Vital Energy? Sex is used as a way to reach the supreme reality, the Bindu - Centre of Sri Chakra.

But there are many who contest, these, ignorant say, it is wrong to see the goddess in this way, they amount it to lust, it is because lust is present in their mind, because for the one whom lust does not affect, He will not have any reservation in seeing the Goddess Mother and her beauty. They say one should not get aroused on Goddess, it is a sin to do so, which I feel is wrong and I strongly contest, getting aroused is a divine experience, closer to God, Shakthi, its the Vital energy, Praana, Oordhva. It is all about Feminity, the Sadhaka - Kameshwara getting fused into Shakti - energy which is considered feminine. It is not wrong to see Goddess and get aroused, it is most pristine expresion of Love or devtion to Beauty which is nothing but Shakti.  

It has to be understood, Sex - the word has become vulger in todays scenaio, but ancient Indians venerated the very act of the Sex. Even today in so many famous temples, we see explicit carvings on the Temple Gopurams, infact they even talk about various complications that we face in todays world, one can find one man having sex with more than one woman, Woman and Woman, etc... (I would like to keep away from this debate) but what I would like to stress here is the open-ness among our ancestors. For example, Draupadi is said to have had 5 Husbands. Infact Clonning was known to our ancient Ancestors. Dhritarashtra was said to have 100 sons - See Duryodhana's 100 brothers. It was clonning. It is a said fact that all brother of Duryodhana were alike in valor, strength and form.

Pandu, Pandavas father had two wives, and Kunti is said to have had sons from the Gods, Vayu - Bhima, Yama - Yudishra, etc... It signifies the open ness among our ancestors to have babies from who are referred as Gods on cases where one cannot have baby, refer Mahabharata why Pandu was cursed not to have baby. Sexual Problems prevailed even then and that did not stop them from having a baby.

But most importantly, what one has to notice in such diversity is the intention, they had children intently, with a purpose, for the very purpose of nature. Today, it has degraded to a state where couples say that their first baby was an accident, second, third, etc... were not planned, it just happened etc... - This is Un-cultured - This is Lust.

A person who admits the need for sex and who visits a prostitute is not to be seen down and has to be respected, its a sign of genuine-ity. Where as we have one set of people who talk about Brahmacharya, lo, lo blah blah ans pose themselves as exalted souls but have the desire lingering in their mind. Today, people are sex starved and Rape murder have increased because the very idea of prostitute is a sin. Prostitutes have a role to play in the society which has been playing very important role than the Nuclear deal between the US and India.

Prostitute were given proper and respectable identity by our ancestors. They were called as Apsaras. Infact, in Ramayana (Please see Valmiki Ramayana), when Soorpanaka falls in love with Rama and shows her interest in Rama, Rama respectfully rejects her offer for he is not interested, but said to her that she can approach Lakshmana if he is interested. But it was a different matter all together that Lakshmana was really not interested either, infact it is a lesser known fact that Lakshmana had never slept at all in the entire 14 year of exile he was with Rama. Rama had come with his wife to the forest whereas Lakshmana was not accompanied by his wife Urmila. Such was openness in our Vedic age.

When Arjuna goes away in search for Parashurama to learn and obtain divine weapons during the Vana Vasa of Pandavas, He is approached by various ladies/apsaras on this matter.

I would say, read the Puranas, Upanishads, Vedas, Vedanta, and see fr yourself and find out the reality about Sex.

Salutations to Sri Ramana.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 12:11:10 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
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SLakshmi

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2009, 05:22:36 PM »
Bhagavan actually very aptly used the union of a husband and wife  as an anology in the context of describing the concept of  'not displaying advaita towards the guru even after full liberation' -

Formal respect is only for external show. When the husband and the wife are in bed, where is all this [formal respect]? (Sri Ramana Pada Malai, by Sivaprakasam Pillai, cited in The Power of the Presence, part one, p. 63)


If it is properly understood, the tradition of intimate and true disciples showing external deference to the Guru, who has accepted them as rightfully his, is similar to the respect shown by a wife to her husband, which is limited to outward behaviour only. (Guru Vachaka Kovai, verse 304)


David godman further states "Extending this analogy into the spiritual realm, the disciple may have attained oneness with his or her Guru, but the behaviour he or she exhibits is always reverent and deferential. He said that even though a Hindu wife may have enjoyed sexual union with her husband, in public she will still show him deference and respect."



soham3

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2009, 06:38:18 PM »
To my knowledge, no body has understood sex 100 % so far and no body has conquered it either. Buddha and Jesus might have transcended it 90 % (say).
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan's attitude towards sex
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2009, 08:44:31 PM »
...... so thinks the jiva.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta