Author Topic: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion  (Read 45745 times)

ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2008, 06:20:35 AM »
Dear srkudai ji

For advanced people  who are in spiritual field can just sit and watch the mind. They may be having suddha manas. But for others,
we cannot sit and watch the mind only. for an example, what about rajasic and thamasic minded people. We have to put effort to bring the mind to suddha manas. Ashtavakra is teaching to Janaka who already has vairagyam as you said in your previous post. So I would like to know what Ashtavakra says for rajasic and thamasic people.


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ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2008, 06:42:50 AM »
Dear Srkudai ji,

Thanks for your post. Even though I read books which told we are witness and consiousness it did not go within me.
Recently after joining this forum, I am feeling the shift within me. Because all these days, I have not come accross
anybody who is interested deeply in this subject. It is not possible to go outside to find a guru and learn for me. I learnt lot from Subramaniyan ji, Raju ji and from your posts. Now a days I could see easily how my mind is playing. From morning to night I was chainting, some mantras but the result I was not feeling free of guilty, fear and anxiety. Now when I started watching my mind, I started feeling who I am which helps me lot.Mainly your post which gave the clear activities of the mind. suggestion or command...benifited me. Now I can relax nicely simply watching the mind. As I understood of the mind now I do not try to pacify it or change the subject.My  Mind is projecting movies continously and "I" am watching day and night. except during the deep sleep. I tried your tecniques to day. It was something different.
Once again I thank you.

Ramanaduli

ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2008, 08:24:35 AM »
Dear srkudai ji,

I forgot to add some more points in my post reply. I can watch my mind if there is no problem in my body. Now you may say body does not have the mouth to tell only the mind is expressing, I know I am not the body or mind. but when there is pain, severe discomfort I cannot concentrate. I think how Bhagavan took the cancer pain and could witness while he was operated. I do not know when I will be in that condition. I used to tell I am not a body or mind always. But when I had an car accident I screamed like anything. I remembered the story where one parrot was taught to say rama rama always. People used to wonder and said it would go to heaven. Oneday it came out of the cage and was caught by a cat.Immedietly it shouted as usual way (kee kee). not rama rama. So I am also like this parrot. When everything is ok, it is easy to watch our mind. some days it is possible not always.

Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2008, 11:35:46 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Bhagavan Ramana is a different fish.  We cannot compare ourselves
with Him.  But do not worry, for most of us, during extreme emtions
of pain or even happiness, the mind starts playing its game and you
cannot watch the mind and be quiet.  Whether it is a car accident
or your son bringing a nice chocolate, the mind always jumps for its
own play.  Even a third party 'happening' gives us joy or pain as per
the whimsies of the mind.  Even Barack Obama won the US elections,
my son telephoned from HK, my niece telephoned from Boston,
my wife was watching NDTV and I also enjoyed.  At that time,
one cannot say: "For whom is this victory?  Is it for Obama? Is it
for me?  If it is for me, who am I?  I am not the mind."  This
utter neutrality in emtions will come only in due course, and not
immeditately.  It does not mean, that you should be like a dud.
Definitely not.  One should go past these emtions, and this will take
time.  Only Bhagavan Ramana's will make it swifter, through His Grace.
if we have 'arrived' and we are 'ready'.  Thereafter, we shall still
have the emtions, like a mirror reflecting the joys and miseries outside.
But the mirror does not shed tears!

Arunachala Siva.   

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2008, 05:53:15 PM »
Dear Srk Udai,
                   Once a devotee told Bhagawan that his mind is in agitation.Bhagawan replied "let it be,it is it's nature to have such modifications.
The very fact that you are able to perceive the agitated mind shows that your essential nature is not the mind.Be aloof towards it's
modifications and dont try to interfere with thought,things will get complicated.Live with it- thats all'.In the passive state of awareness the agitation or some other mental modification disintegrates by
itself by revealing it's contents in whole to us at the conscious level.So flowering of the problem in passive awareness is the withering of it.
So passive awareness is the penacea for all mental problems and it keeps the mind healthy.
pvssnraju

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2008, 06:43:26 PM »
Dear Srk Udai,
                  It is not there in Talks with Bhagawan.I shall refer the souce and i will let you know.That particular devotee is an illiterate.
pvssnraju

ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2008, 08:08:44 PM »
Dear Srkudai ji.

We are consiousness and also motionless. Only our mind is moving restless always. As our mind is runing always we thinks we are moving and changing. It is like
when we are siting in a moving train, we see the trees and sky also moving fast.But it is not like that.  The sky never moves and trees also never move.
This is illusion only.  I think to project a moving thing there should be a unmoving thing. Is not it? If we have to travel i.e. to move one place to another place,we
have to sit in a train. which is moving. The train should be on the track which is fixed on a unmoveable earth. So when we watch our moving mind, there should
be a unmoveable consiousness on which the mind is moving. I think I tried to express my understanding here.
But while reading this sort of vedanta  man can understand but he will miss to watch this motions sometimes. It happens due to the forgetfullness.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2008, 10:02:11 AM »
Dear Dr. Raju, srkudai, Ramanaduli and others,

There is a beautfiul name under the 108 Holy Names of Bhagavan
Sri Ramana Maharshi.  This was composed by Visvanathaswami.

The name is:

Name: 43: Om Rachitachala Thandavaya Namah:

One who dances as the Hills.  How the Hills, which is achala, non-
moving, can dance?  Visavanathasvami explains, that He is the Hills,
non-moving Self, but is full of Effulgence.  The glittering effulgence,
the vibrating rays of the light dance!  The Non-moving Self, which is
not the mind, dances, all activities take place!  The mind's agitation,
we always know, this is the mind's dance, day in and day out.  If
one remains as the Witness, then the Witness's Effulgence dances,
and this is called Sakti-nipatam, the dance of Uma in Siva. This is
explained  in Name 16.  This is the touch of the untouch!  This is the
dance is of the non-moving!  This dance stops all the other dances,
the mind's agitation.

Arunagiri Natha says in one Tiruppugazh, when I am tossing in the
oceans of samsara, you come as a boatman!  When the boatman,
the Self, takes you and moves with his boat, your "tossing" is no longer there.  This is agaiin further explained in another Name No. 93, Om Samsararnva-tharakaya Namah.  Visvanathaswami explains this name
with the particular reference to this Tiruppgazh.

Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2008, 08:17:12 PM »
DearSirs,

Before coming to this forum, this mind used to pray for everything.  does not want others to suffer due to my unforgetfullesss and mistakes After learning clearly about the self, Bhagavan, I pray this way.... eventhough everything is happening according to your wish, people who are living with me should not suffer due to me. When the incidents happen nicely, mind says, prayers are all answered. Mind expects the right result only. Anyway, this body once again reached Chennai without any single problem from Us. Without asking the lady in the counter while checking in, told me there is one couple who travels from here to chennai. I took  it is a "Miracle"
So I understand, the mind only prays, expects and enjoys the result. All are moving on the consiousness.



Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2008, 10:14:15 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There is nothing wrong in praying to God for good results.  It is the
natural human behaviour.  The only thing that we should learn is
that we should accept even the bad results as God's prize to us,
since even in such bad results there could be something good within,
but without being known through our empirical knowledge.

Arunachala Siva.

Ganesh_b01

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2009, 07:57:35 PM »
Here Janaka is still a student as Ashtavakra is still to continue the Gita. Janaka is now beginning to understand and has understood in this scenario that he is not the Body and anything else. It has now become apparent to him that HE is something apart from Body or anything. He is happy to realise this truth that He has discovered that HE is not the Body but something residing in the Body.

It has now become apparent to him his true Self.

We can compare our selves with Janakas position. some of us would have realised the basic truth that we are not the Body but something apart from the body. We also have come to realise our True Self.

Abandoning the body here by Janaka is nothing but realising the truth about the Self that the Self is not the Body. He says it is his good fortune that he has understood this great truth.

Are'nt we also fortunate that by the grace of Bhagwan we are atleast minimally able to perceive this truth that we are all not this Body? We may not be really a great student like Janaka. But are'nt we really blessed to atleast grasp this great truth?

I am eager to further read Ashtavakra Gita from here, to read and realise the journey of Janaka and Ashtavakra.

We should all see ourselves as Janaka and Ashtavakra as our beloved Guru Sri Ramana Maharshi.

I love you O Bhagwan

Ganesh_b01

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2009, 12:01:30 PM »
What a wonderful story. We are all indeed kings with mistaken identity of Beggers.

There is another beautiful story at the prelude of Ashtavakra Gita itself. I just remembered it as I was reading your post. Its again a story told by our beloved Bhagwan.

King Janaka was listening to a Philosophical treatise being read by a State Pandit wherein a passage occurred to the effect that a rider who had placed one foot in the stirrup, contemplating upon realisation could realise the Self befor he lifter the other foot to place it in the other stirrup. That passage taught that when realisation comes, it comes in an instant. The King stopped the pandit from proceeding further and ordered him to prove the statement.The Pandit admitted that he was only a bookworm and was unable to impart wisdom. Janaka suggested that the text was either false or exaggerated, but the pandit would not agree to this. Though he was himself unable to impart practical wisdom, he maintained that the text could not be false as they are the wise words of great sages. Janaka was annoyed and then in a fit of rage he sent the pandit to prison.

He ordered every Pandit to be sent to prison who was not able to prove the scriptural text. So many pandits being feared of imprisonment fled from the country to forests and other places. In the forest, Ashtavakra happened to see some pandits running thick into the forest and enquired with them and offered to prove the text to the King and have all the other Pandits realeased.

Later, having the bold assurance of Ashtavakra, Janaka saluted him with great reverence and ordered the release of all the pandits imprisoned. Janaka thought such assurances could come from only one who had the capacity to set all his doubts at rest.

The sage advised him not to be in hurry and suggested that they should go to a solitary spot. Janaka on his horse and Ashtavakra in the Palanquin went towards the forest. After some distance, the Sage asked the King to send back the retinue. Janaka did as he was asked. and then when placing his feet in the stirrup, he requested the sage to prove the scriptural text. The sage replied whether the position in which they stood indicated a proper master-disciple relationship. The King understood that he should show due reverence towards Ashtavakra. The sage addressed the King as Janaka and he was no longer a king and ordered that he should surrender himself and all his possessions before he impart to him Brahma-jnana. So be it said Janaka and immediately Ashtavakra disappeared. (Saying this our beloved Bhagwan imitated the posture of Janaka)

Time passed by, and the anxious citizens began searching him. The eventually found him in the forest in a place where Janaka was standing transfixed and were dismayed to find hm unaware of their presence and indifferent to their earnest enquiries.  Then they set forth in search of Ashtavakra, who they thought must have done some black magic and would have cast a spell on the King and owed a vengeance upon him.

At last haveing found Ashtavakra, the ministers requested to him earnestly to remove the spell cast on him and bring back him to normalcy.
Ashtavakra ingnored all these remarks with contempt and called the name of the King 'Janaka', who immediately saluted him and responded to his call. all the Ministers were surprised. Ashtavakra told the King that he was maliciously being accused by the people of having brought him to some sad plight and asked him to tell the truth. The angrily asked 'who said so?' all ministers were taken by surprise and pleaded for mercy. There upon Ashtavakra asked Janaka to resume normal functions adding that Brahma Jnana could be taught to a competent persons and that since the king had successfully passed the test and that He would now impart it to him. The age remained aline with the King during the night and taught him the ultimate truth saying "Brahman is not anything new or apart from oneself and no particular time or place is needed to realise it.

The next morning the ministers found the king calling the assembly and performing his functions as usual. Now in the assembly, Ashtavakra asked the King whether his former doubt about whether Brahman Janan could be attained as suddenly and as quickly as mentioned in the scriptures was cleared? and if so bring a horse and demonstrate the truth of it.

Janaka was all humility now and said "Lord because of my immaturity, I doubted the correctness of the scriptural text. I now realise every letter of it is true. The ministers thanked the great Sage.

- Source Stories told by Ramana Maharshi

O Bhagwan I Love you

Ganesh_b01

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2009, 11:24:43 PM »
Dear Srkudai,

Bhagwan Ramana has so easily preached this verse in his entire bodily life by his simple teaching - 'Who am I'. In the beginning a person can meditate just over absolutely anything. The mind will some how ultimately come back to the primal question about the 'I' who is it that is meditating? some entity is meditating! who is that entity?

Bhagwan says here that

1. First the Self sees itself as objects - like we first meditate on forms, water, beauty etc...
2. Then the Self sees itself as Void - When he realises about the existence of an entity 'I' the primal and the first entity thinking - the thinker -   the doer. Here one is not able to get actually what is the answer to the question who am I. It appears to be void from here
3. Then the Self sees the self as Self itself. Here is the end. there are no enquiry, no more questions. The self is just contended.

Many occasions I have heard people complain about Kali yuga, and how unfortunate it is to have been born in Kali Yuga and all.

It is because we are here in Kali Yuga we are able to see our beloved Bhagawan

I also feel that Bhagwan has discounted millions and millions of sacred scriptures and exchanged all those repositories of knowledge and gave us 3 simple words as our sacred scriptures in Kali Yuga "WHO AM I" thats the end of all the scriptures.

I feel now that when we complete reading the Ashtavakra Gita we will end up coming back to the same question "Who am I?"

In Satya/Krita Yuga people had to do severe Tapas and austerities to attain the Self
In Dwapara Yuga it was Yajnas and sacrifices
in Kali Yuga it is only Bhakti/Nama smarana

sometimes I also have wondered much about Bhakti and also lacked enough patience to do Nama Smarana. But Bhagwans "Who am I" is beyond everything else.

the question "Who am I" is entire Vedas, Vedanta, Upanishats, Puranas, Brahma Sutra, Everything. absolutely everything.

O Bhagwan I love you.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2009, 11:14:17 AM »
Dear srkudai,

Absolutely right.  It is the ego, the monkey is the mischief-monger!
Bhagavan Ramana says that the mind is the condensed body.  The mind gets bored, the mind gets irritated, the mind becomes restless,
the mind gets pained.  It is all mind's game.  I decide when I go to sleep, that I should get up at 5 am next morning.  I wake up.  It is
4.45.  Oh, it is only 4.45, another 15 minutes.  The body is ready and willing.  It  is the mind. The mind which decided previous night to get up at 5 am, does not want it now.  I sit for japa, after two minutes, I begin to think, why can't I have some coffee and then  continue....? Is it the body that wants coffee?  It is the mind. It is all mind's game.  Saint Tayumanavar says that he wants only a religion that teaches  how to control the mind and not any other religion! 

Arunachala Siva.   

Ganesh_b01

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Re: Ashtavakra Samhita a Discussion
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2009, 05:33:14 PM »
Dear Srkudai,

I agree with you completely, the scriptures have a systematic approach to lead  a disciple to the Self. By my post I did not intend or even tried suggesting that all other scriptures can be ignored completely. Infact I did read Ashtavakra Gita several times and even today.

The example which you have quoted is Self enquiry itself. Finally whatever one pursues any way any sadhana, will finally reach to this enquiry who am I, who is it that is doing the sadhana. Honestly, I have tried doing the Japa, Nama Smarana using Japa Maalas. Like you mentioned a time arouse when I grew impatient, some irritation, then 'who am I' enquiry was like a boon to me. This monkey in me which became so restless now was able to find peace. The Japa Namasmarana ultimately leads one to Self enquiry itself.

True as you say many people really find it difficult to grasp the essence of 'Who am I' When I read your previous post from Chapter 2 verse 5, I just became so happy and excited that Bhagawan has in fact given to us through 'Who am I' the entire essence of the Vedas, Upanishads etc...

Through 'Who am I' enquiry, we will be learning all the essence of the Vedas, Upanishads without actually reading it from any scripture. It becomes our direct experience. Whereas for one who has read scriptures before he will be able to confirm his experience with what he has read. Both are same. Like Sri Ramana after he came to Arunachala found that his state exactly tallied to what scriptures have conveyed. He had no prior experiences or has read any scriptures or even learnt the Vedas before. He had only read the stories of Nayanmars. We are all ultimately meeting at a common point in the Self Enquiry itself - Who am I

Prostrations to Bhagawan