Author Topic: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?  (Read 16877 times)

ramana_maharshi

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Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« on: February 26, 2010, 01:57:32 PM »
D. Devotee
M. Ramana Maharshi


D.: How to get rid of fear?

M.: What is fear? It is only a thought. If there is anything besides the Self there is reason to fear. Who sees the second (anything external)? First the ego arises and sees objects as external. If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there is no second (nothing external). For anything external to oneself implies the seer within. Seeking it there will arise no doubt, no fear - not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it.

D.: This method seems to be quicker than the usual one of cultivating qualities alleged necessary for salvation (sadhana chatushtaya)?

M.: Yes. All bad qualities centre round the ego. When the ego is gone Realisation results by itself. There are neither good nor bad qualities in the Self. The Self is free from all qualities. Qualities pertain to the mind only. It is beyond quality. If there is unity, there will also be duality. The numeral one gives rise to other numbers. The truth is neither one nor two. IT is as it is.

D.: The difficulty is to be in the thought-free state.

M.: Leave the thought-free state to itself. Do not think of it as pertaining to you. Just as when you walk, you involuntarily take steps, so too in your actions; but the thought-free state is not affected by your actions.

Source: TALKS WITH SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI Book


Nagaraj

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 03:22:46 PM »
All fear is only the fear of unknown. Instead of searching and knowing the unknown, it is best advised (as per the Maharshi) to focus on what is known that is the Self, the (feeling) of 'I am' let aside everything else, but this (feeling) of 'I am' never remains unknown at all times. This (feeling) of 'I am' is that which the sword cannot pierce, fire cannot burn, the water cannot melt, the air cannot dry. There is absolutely no harm at all for (this). It is in destructible! what is there apart from (this) to fear about!

All fear is just the same fear as in when one fears to jump int the waters to learn swimming, but all fear disappears when once one jumps pass through the water!

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

amiatall

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 07:42:46 PM »
Unknown must not be avoided.
Particularly when people start realizing there is no 'ME' fear arises. And it will, because one is stepping into unknown. This fear is of existence "am i at all"? But what of it if one is not at all? nothing is lost.
Behind every fear there is a question, this should be seen clearly. These questions of fear are about future only. It is very subtle, subconscious questions.
Someone somewhere said “Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. But i say what one must not fear definitely is fear itself.

Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2010, 10:09:50 PM »
Dear srkudai,

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he says you are beyond qualities!

Yes, the key word here is HE, a jnani.

He has also said that when people repeat words without the experience, they are like gramaphones. There are many such gramaphones just outside the ashram itself.  You may have to pay to listen to them.   ;)

Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2010, 10:29:51 PM »
Dear prasanth,

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Seeking it there will arise no doubt, no fear - not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it.

Thank you.  Bhagawan seems to be stating that fear disappears with the ego. Or that fear will continue as long as there is an ego. This is like the Buddha's saying that so long as there is desire, there will be fear and suffering.

"Fear is always in relation to something; it does not exist by itself. There is fear of what happened yesterday in relation to the possibility of its repetition tomorrow....I had pain yesterday; there is the memory of it and I do not want it again tomorrow. Thinking about the pain of yesterday, thinking which involves the memory of yesterday’s pain, projects the fear of having pain again tomorrow. So it is thought that brings about fear. Thought breeds fear; thought also cultivates pleasure. To understand fear you must also understand pleasure –they are interrelated; without understanding one you cannot understand the other. This means that one cannot say ‘I must only have pleasure and no fear’; fear is the other side of the coin which is called pleasure".
(Krishnamurti)


Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 09:37:41 AM »
Dear srkudai,

Anybody who has read a few pages of a jnani's teachings can repeat the same words. Then again, a tape or a cd will do it better without making mistakes. ;D  Try making the 'gurus' in every street corner of Tiruvannamalai understand that.  ;)

Bhagawan told people that experience is required and not book knowledge which makes them no better than gramaphones. So if you disagree with him based on your actual experience then that is wonderful. Honesty is very rare and refreshing in spiritual matters where the vasanas of the devotees generally make them gramaphones of their favourite jnani.

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all you need is to recognize the experiences you already have.

A lot many people recognize their experiences and only get depressed further. Their experience is lack of food, shelter, loss of a loved one, failures in family, job etc.

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Every thought is pointing to the Existence of Self

No, far from it. Every thought is creating more and more confusion and chaos in the world. The nature of thought is to associate with external objects (including its own mental ideas). This leads to either attraction (desire) or revulsion (fear). Every attraction or revulsion in turn produces many more thoughts and actions to achieve that result. Hitler thought the Jews were inferior people. That single thought caused enormous suffering in the world. It did not point to the Self. The Brahmin thought he was superior to everybody  for thousands of years. The Self seems to be about oneness and compassion, not separativeness and exploitation created by thoughts.


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Every experience is equally special.

I don't think those who experienced world wars through 26/11 will find that to be the case. Certainly not the six million jews during WW II. When beggars came to Bhagawan he did not give some explanation or theory that their experience is special. Rather he bestowed his grace on them that even cured some.

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Thoughts or the mind is not "Alive" to be killed by you. Suppose you want to kill a shadow, what do you do ? You need not kill it, just recognize that its not alive in the first place! That is killing. one cannot kill what is not alive! Its just not possible!

If there is an I to recognize anything alive or dead then it indicates a mind that is very much alive. Without Self realization, all these theories are also the creation of cunning thoughts. That is the origin of delusion. That is how they perpetuate themselves and create more chaos.

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And since it is not clear ... people throw it outside , saying "we cannot understand how a jnani can function without thoughts since we are not jnanis" ... that is not true either! Jnani has thoughts.

This has also been explained by the jnanis. Bhagawan thought clearly whenever he spoke or wrote in any language. So he could think whenever needed.  It is not correct to say that jnanis cannot think at all.


"Can thought function when necessary as knowledge, in action, and be completely still at other times? That is the real issue"  (Krishnamurti).




Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 09:52:23 AM »
In this connection it is interesting to see the fear of Bhagavan Ramana at
the time of death experience.  He suddenly started "feeling the shock of
fear."  Then He thought, what is the most basic fear?  The fear of death.
What is death?  Am I dying?  Then He did the 'drama' of keeping the limbs
tight, closing the lips without any words and created a rigor mortis situation.
Then He found out that it is the body/mind that is dying but the I is not
dead.  It is still shining within me.  Here the point is, even though He
had the sense of fear of death, He did not run away for solutions.  He
just witnessed the fear.  For whom is this fear?  This witnessing is the
most important aspect. 

We also do have fears, fear of the known and fear of the unknown.
But we never witness it.  We such search for solutions other than being
a witness. We become  victims.

Arunachala Siva.       

Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2010, 08:57:55 AM »
Dear Subramanian,

Bhagawan's death experience is one of the most remarkable events in human history. He 'realized' that the body is dead but there is something else that is unperishable. And he made it clear by saying that all this was not an intellectual exercise on his part. In fact, the witnessing appears to be a complete cessation of thoughts during his death experience which enabled him to realize the Self then and there.

Yes, because our immediate instinct is to look for solutions whenever fear arises, we immediately become more mentally active trying to choose the best solution. This is exactly the opposite of what Bhagawan seems to have done.

"Look at fear without the observer. It is only then that there is the ending of fear; not escaping from fear, not suppression of fear, through drink, sex, amusements, through gods, through going to churches." (Krishnamurti)




Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 09:59:14 AM »
Dear srkudai,

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Now this is a typical gramaphone statement! Excuse me for this... But i am not blaming you!

It was a setup and I tried to be as obvious as possible. ;) I am glad you noticed it.  ;D. Will be more subtle next time. ;D

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Every thought is also a pointer that Self is there! Coz there cannot be a thought without Self.

Yep, this one is a gramaphone statement, all right. :) Thought can imagine anything including the Self, god, etc; you name it and you got it.

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The thought is reminding of external object. The same thought is also reminding of Self. Coz Self is present and therefore a thought is possible.


Why stop there? Thought can build a layered theory. Thought is possible due to self, self is due to a Self, Self is due to a SELF. ;D. Yah, that seems to be more fun. Besides you can fill up more time easily on the high capacity dvd by explaining a bigger theory.


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the only way out is ... the Recognition of Experience of God when God came to him as ordinary man!

Err. There was some mention of one Mr Hitler in my earlier mail. Guess a few million had trouble seeing him as god's coming. You could have straightened all of them with your explanation.  :)

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Someone dubbed thoughts as distractions! We keep repeating that ! Coz we ourselves have not ventured to question it!

Then again we may have seen the external operation of thought in the world which is a lot simpler.

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No one! Only a person who has seen can Show!

Such a person may simply say he cannot show; that we have to see ourselves.  :)

Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 12:46:15 PM »
Dear srkudai,

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You think it was Hitler who killed so many people? If so i am sure you are giving him more power than he has! It was God who gave that "Puppet" called hitler that power! God did the killing! Through Hitler! 

Gee, this is what Hitler said too! :o You are making more gramaphone statements than you realize.  ;D

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Self cannot be lost.

Yep. Kinda hard to loose anything before finding it.  ;D

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its easier to see the man who is before you as a man ... its far tougher to see him as a tree or a bird! that needs lot of effort!

Actually it is a lot easier than you think. Just a smoke can do it. ;)  Or when you reach my age it happens on its own!


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Coz you are Self, you do not need to "become it" by stopping thoughts

Er, actually you can't since it is a thought that says you are the Self or not.

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you have to see! i agree. but if you are seeing but not recognizing , then? what to do ? Then i can help you recognize what you are seeing! Got that?

Yeah! Why does that sound like a broken ... ! ;D  Have a feeling the help is going to be for a steep price.  :)


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Scriptures tell the story someone was searching for a medicinal plant! he was searching in a jungle where that plant was almost every where! it was a common plant! He did not recognize it! The problem is not of not seen ... it is of not recognized!

Ah, got it. It is those 'medicinal' plants that make you say all this  ;D




amiatall

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 07:01:04 PM »
interesting discussion... but lets get to facts.
1. conscious waking state does not choose - fact (refer science)
2. a particular thought comes at a particular time and it just happens as hearing and seeing do.
3. only at particular time and place a thought came to enstein or to newton about this or that.
4. to conclude: it is really ignorant to say that you do something.

tips and hints:
we hear without listening, we see without looking.


Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 09:07:19 PM »
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Now i can clearly imagine your state ..."From your Age and the Smoke Thing"

I have been telling you that. You have been imagining everything all along. ;D  It is thought you see, those darn thoughts that spooked you into self, Self etc.  :)

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Oh thoughts tell you you are not the Self! Ah I see! So who asks you to agree with it ?

Doesn't matter. Agree with it is a thought, disagree is another. Take your pick, eh where it seems you is another thought too.  ;D

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I am not really worried of gramaphone statements ... how does it matter if my statement is already recorded in the gramaphone or not? It really does not matter! So i will continue saying things ... some from books, some from elsewhere ...

Go for it kid. :)  Spin your theories in books and dvds. Put the ashram bookstore out of business. ;D  More power, er smoke, to you. :)

Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 09:27:20 PM »
Dear amiatall,

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a particular thought comes at a particular time and it just happens as hearing and seeing do.

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to conclude: it is really ignorant to say that you do something.

For the benefit of others, you may want to address the examples of Hitler and other butchers in history based on your explanation. You could have certainly saved this world the millions that was wasted in Nuremburg. ;D

Sadhak

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 01:11:48 PM »
Dear srkudai,

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One should have healthy imagination! Ability to imagine, think, draw inferences ... very important!

It is simpler to say you were offering imaginary explanations rather than saying you were clarifying something or other based on your experience.

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And Since books, these teachings etc ... they all "enter" you as thoughts alone! I am only giving thoughts! Please don't think i am giving you "SELF" or some such thing!

I had no such illusions. ;D

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I was reading your posts ! and your comments on "Hitler" ... probably you would have been asking Ramana the same question! Coz Ramana himself was saying the same thing!

Yes, your gramaphoning Ramana without saying so. :) Here is another more relevant gramaphone (so it ain't one ;D). Somebody persistently demanded that Ramana give Self realization to him. Ramana kept quiet. The person persisted and gave the example of Ramakrishna giving it to Vivekananda. To which Ramana asked, 'Are you Vivekananda?'.  So from his standpoint Ramana can say everything is Self or green cheese. But don't assume how he would reply to a question about Hitler. He point blank told Annamalai Swami not to see him anymore. He didn't say 'everything is the Self whether you stay with me or not; there is no you, no me, no body, where can you go, where will I go' etc etc. That is what most devotees do, somehow thinking Ramana's teaching and vocabulary was limited to a handful of cliches!  Oh, your answer of Hitler's butchery being Siva thandavam was more original anyway! ;D. Keep it up kid.  :)


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And thoughts are always "Acquired" and its only permutations and combination of "thoughts" that we keep speaking ... so ultimately no one can escape a "Gramaphone" kind of things! what do you have to say?


One can repeat a story or a sutra without passing it off as one's own experience. That is not a gramaphone. But repeating the same cliches over and over for any question in life without any personal experience would certainly be one.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ramana Maharshi explains How to get rid of fear?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 02:26:20 PM »
Bhagavan Ramana says to the members:  Sh......

Arunachala Siva.