Why do miseries come and go?

[Nagaraj]

Sufferings, pains are the biggest grace in themselves. When one recognises this truth, that these sufferings are there so that one recognises ones own true Self. Such sufferings keep coming to one till he realises and abides as Self.

Like the mother bird which pushes her chick from the nest till it learns to fly, sufferings keep coming till one realises one true nature. There is no other persons sufferings or my or our sufferings as such, but there is just only 'Suffereing' i.e. there is only Grace.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

[silentgreen]

Bhishma Deva lay dying on his bed of arrows. All the Pandavas are standing with Sri Krishna. They see tears flowing from the eyes of Bhishma Deva.

Arjuna says to Sri Krishna, "Brother, how strange it is! Pitamah, who is Bhishma Deva himself, truthful, has conquered his senses, a jnani and one of the eight Vasus, even he is weeping at the time of his death because of maya."

When Sri Krishna asked Bhishma about it, Bhishma replied, "Sri Krishna! You know very well that I am not weeping because of this. When I see that there is no end to the sufferings even of the Pandavas who have Bhagavan Himself as their charioteer, I weep thinking that I have not been able to understand anything of the ways of Bhagavan."

--- Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

[ramanaduli]

Like us, in all avataras, Gods also suffer. Rama, Sita both suffered. Krishna, also suffered lot. His birth was taken place in jail, immedietly He was sent to another lady. In His childhood He was called theif because He stole butter, Gopi's vastra. He had to kill asuras and putna for His own survival then killed His own uncle kamsa. During the battle kowravas blamed Him. At last He was killed by a hunter. His whole life is not less than our life still He smiles in all pictures. Because He was enlighted. They say even though He had 1000 wives, He is a brahmachari and Durvasa is upavasi.


ramanaduli

[arunagiri]

Dear Friends

I came across a site in which i found arunachala ramana who is adopting Bhagavan Ramanas teachings but giving a certificate course on "Self Enquiry". He is having an ashram here in Thiruvannamalai. Anyone knows about it?

Can anyone throw somelight on this pls?

Thanks

[Nagaraj]

Dear I,

Please refer these posts:

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=4209.0

I absolutely don't know any thing about this organisation. Please use your prudence in venturing further. We can never really question any body's intentions about his/her spiritual quest or foundations or organisations.

Bhagavan takes everyone to where one has to be led to.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

[Nagaraj]

Dear I,

Yes, I have always been fascinated by the irony, everybody always talk much about the sufferings of Rama and Sita. But I have always felt (not a comparison) that Krishna is the one who has really suffered it a lot. Un Imaginable sufferings, it appears to me, that Rama's sufferings are nothing in front of Krishna's (Please do not take amiss, both are one and the same, not comparing)

1. Krishna was born in Jail to Devaki and Vasudeva
2. Sent to Nanda and Yashoda
3. He leaves Nanda and Yashoda for ever and never comes back
4. He never gets to stay with his real parents at all
5. He never had a single house
6. He had severe disputes with his most loveable brother Balarama. They never talked to each other.
7. He never got to live with any of his queens at all. He was all alone all the time
8. The little good friendship he had with Arjuna also did not last much as it as bungled with war and deaths
9. Nothing was ever concrete in his life.
10. His entire clan Yadavas are destroyed
11. Gandhari curses him that he is the one who induced war between Pandavas and Kauravas, and the reason for the death of her 100 sons
12. He is the reason behind Yudhishtra's having to lie about the death of Ashvattaama to Drona
13. Infact many people hated him to the core excepting a very few people who are prominently known through the study of Bhagavatam and Mahabharatha.
14. He left the Gopikas Mad. Never ever visited them again.
15. He left Radha. Never met her again.
16. He was the reason behind Duryodhana's death.

These points apart, each and every points mentioned above has beautiful Tatvams, which is very clearly available in Bhagavad Gita.

These are just a few to quote, there are so so many more....

But he was a Sthithaprajna of the first order. Living in midst of Kshatriya clan, Yadavas, Brahmanas, chaos, war, politics, treachery, etc...

Salutations to Sri Ramana

[Graham]

To reply to the query about the self-appointed American guru and his 'ashram' here in Tiruvannamalai.

How is it possible to award certificates for inner work that is known only to God - and why award a certificate in the first place? The answer is money, money and more money!

[Graham]

Nagaraj

I have repeatedly read the Srimad Bhagavatam - the condensed English translation by S. S. Cohen, published by the ashram, and do not see any reference to Lord Krishna suffering anything. Also a lot of the points you make are inaccurate according to that version.

Cohen was and is highly respected as a Self-realised devotee of Bhagavan by many devotees - the clarity and power of his words which go straight to the heart are testimony to this.

How is it possible for the Soul of the Universe to suffer anything?

[Nagaraj]

Dear I,

Yes, no where in Bhagavatam is it mentioned about the points I mentioned, all I was trying to mention was that It cannot be seen at all that Krishna suffered. He was above all these. One cannot know at all that there was suffering in Krishna's life. I just mentioned few instances which could go to prove in usual sense as to ho much Krishna could have suffered. These are hidden Tatvas, according to me. No where is it mentioned any where in Bhagavatam or in Mahabharata, but a careful study will certainly lead one to the truth, like for instances, Balarama did not agree to several ways of Krishna, He never visited back the Gopikas, only instance we come across is that Sri Krishna sends Uddhava to Gopikas in the Uddhava Gita or the last skanda of Bhagaavatam.

The subtle point I was trying to make is this that though in ordinary eyes, it may appear that Krishna had to sufferings with so many shackles that happened in his life, but He being Krishna, the very personification of Sthithaprajna, conduted himself as a sage all throughout, he gives us the glorious teachings of Bhagavad Gita as to how to conduct ourselves giving light to the eternal Self.

Nobody could spot any pain or suffereing in Krishna as it was not there for him at all.

Like, our beloved Ramana Maharshi, who had to undergo surgery, I have heard that He had his first surgery even without anesthesia as well. He remained so unmoved to all these bodily sufferings and he remained composed as Self inspite of all the sufferings that seem from our eyes. Krishna was like this throughout, He being like Ramana, never really was sufferings though there were several instances. Please do correct me, if I am wrong anywhere.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

[Subramanian.R]

As a related subject, the subject of a Jnani and an Avatara,
came up two times as indicated in Talks of M. Venkataramiah
and once in Day by Day of Devaraja Mudaliar.

Bhagavan Ramana has clarified to Devaraja Mudaliar (in his
entry of 14th Sept. 1946) that the Jnani was higher than the
avatara, according to some books.  When Devaraja Mudaliar
had written earlier in a letter to his brother "that Jnani is the highest manifestation of God on earth, next perhaps only to an avatara",
Bhagavan had said this.  When Mudaliar wanted to correct his letter, Bhagavan Ramana said:  "Why do you correct it?  Let it go as it is"

Earlier, there are two "talks" in Munagala Venkataramiah's book.

In Talk No. 307, Bhagavan Ramana when asked by someone regarding avatars of Vishnu, had said:  "Let us know our own
avatara, the knowledge of the other avataras will follow."

In Talk No. 471, a devotee said:

The avatars are said to be more glorious than the self realized
Jnanis.  Maya does not affect them from birth, divine powers are manifest,new religions are started and so on.          

Bhagavan:  (1) "Jnani tvatmaiva me matam."
                 (2) "Sarvam khalvidam brahma."

How is an avatar different from a Jnani; or how can there be an
avatar as distinct from the universe?

Devotee:  The eye is said to be repository of all forms.  So the
ear is of all sounds, etc.,  The one Chaitanya operates as all.
No miracles are possible without the aid of the senses, indriyas.
How can there be miracles at all?  If they are said to surpass
human understanding so are the creation in dreams.  Where then
is the miracle?
               The distinction between Avataras and Jnanis is absurd.
"Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman only." is otherwise contradicted.

Bhagavan: Quite so.

(Source:  As indicated above)

Arunachala Siva.