Author Topic: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry  (Read 5746 times)

Japo

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Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« on: February 05, 2010, 03:13:55 PM »
Hey, some mindfulness teachers nowadays teach "do-nothing-meditation". In it one really just doesn't do anything.  It doesn't include enquirie (like who am I) but is it same as the meditation that sri Bhagavan thaught?

silentgreen

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 04:47:41 PM »
Dear Japo,

Doing nothing helps if a person can truly do nothing inwardly. No thought should be pursued which rises but "released" in the inner space. This quickly leads to an absorption. During self-enquiry a person is keenly trying to inwardly observe from where the sense of "I" rises. The more a person abides in the deeper self, the more he is approaching a stage where he is doing nothing because of "immersion" in pure consciousness. The doing nothing of a saint should not be confused with idleness of an idler. Whether "doing nothing" meditation is same as self-enquiry depends on where the "doing-nothing" practitioner's attention is during the meditation.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Nagaraj

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 06:53:12 PM »
As long there is one to whom this idea as to 'doing nothing' exists, so long there is a division here. Enquire who am I to whom this question/thoughts are arising.

Doing nothing should not become an effort, if what you say is truth, it is Samadhi, effortless, Sahaja Samadhi. if there is effort, then there is vritti.

Meditation is recommended to the one who has not realized his true self.

The paradox is that,

1. One who wants to realise does all kinds of Sadhana.
2. One who has reslised his true Self does no sadhana, He just Is.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2010, 04:19:18 PM »
What is really meant by "doing nothing".  Is it not doing work?
Is it not doing speech?  Is it not doing thinking.  Can one really
be in the state of doing nothing and do, doing nothing meditation?

Bhagavan Ramana says in Sad Darsanam, Verse 26:  If 'I' rises
or if 'ego' rises, everything happens.  This ego or Naan is the
pradama vikaram, the primary disturbance to the equilibrium of
the Self.  This ego can be killed only when one enquires from
where this ego rises.  This is in Sad Darsanam, Verse 28.  How to
enquire?  With total attention, as one diver searches for a
lost vessel or a ring that has fallen into the well.  If one could
do such an enquiry with the total attention of a diver into the well, then only one can know the ego and vanquish it. 

In between Verse 26 and 28 of Sad Darsanam, Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 27:  The state in which the "I" or the "ego" does
not rise, is really the state of the Self.
 
I am not sure whether "doing nothing meditation" says all this.

Arunachala Siva.   

Graham

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2010, 08:04:31 PM »
Bhagavan gave the same instructions as every other REAL Jnani - effort is required to realise the Self.

Effort is even required to be effortless until the Sahaja state is known.

You do nothing is deep sleep, fainting, etc. these states are NOT Self-realisation. Just sitting around is NOT meditation.

The only thing that these so-called teachers are teaching, is how to effortlessly empty other people's pockets so that they can effortlessly enjoy their vices at your expense.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 08:38:45 AM »
Dear Sri Graham,

Nice and humorous reply.  That settles the issue.

Arunachala Siva.

viswanathan

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 10:34:48 AM »

Dear Mr.Japo
I hope that the the following article from "Day By Day With Bhagavan" by Sri Devaraja Mudaliar will be of some help to you on the subject.

11-1-46 Afternoon
A young man from Colombo asked Bhagavan,
“J. Krishnamurti teaches the method of effortless and choiceless
awareness as distinct from that of deliberate concentration.
Would Sri Bhagavan be pleased to explain how best to practise
meditation and what form the object of meditation should take?”

Bhagavan: Effortless and choiceless awareness is our real
nature. If we can attain it or be in that state, it is all right. But
one cannot reach it without effort, the effort of deliberate
meditation. All the age-long vasanas carry the mind outward
and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be
given up and the mind turned inward. For that, effort is necessary
for most people. Of course everybody, every book says,"SUMMA IRU
i.e., “Be quiet or still”. But it is not easy. That is why all
this effort is necessary. Even if we find one who has at once
achieved the mauna or Supreme state indicated by “SUMMA IRU”,
you may take it that the effort necessary has already been
finished in a previous life. So that, effortless and choiceless
awareness is reached only after deliberate meditation. That
meditation can take any form which appeals to you best. See
what helps you to keep away all other thoughts and adopt that
method for your meditation.

Nagaraj

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2010, 11:21:25 AM »
The ultimate essence or aim of any meditation is to just focus on one thought and not let the mind outwards and remain inwards abiding as the Self. If one goes to describe this abidance, its nature, its state, it is going to be a futile exercise. Instead of analysing all and seeking answers and confirmations to all these queries, simply enquire the doubter. Like Ramana says, enquire who the doubter is and the doubter will vanish, there is no point in doubting, the doubter and his source has to be enquired upon.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 06:12:38 PM »
Dear I,

Yes, thats true, in Rig Veda, it is said - Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanti. Truth is one, but ways are many. What I have realised is that, the differences etc... what each person perceives, the various ways or sadhanas one performs leads one to the ultimate Truth. Like all the way upwards in a mountain will lead only to the peak alone and no where else - all will reach at that peak in which ever way they come from. What happens is that when two or more people meet in one such junction of that journey, and when they speak and exchange views, it appears that one is going in one way and the other is going in another way, but when wisdom dawns to them, they will simply continue with their journeys without any doubt that both are going to reach the same Truth and are not different people as well.

I have realised that contradictions and difference of views etc... are all correct, there is nothing wrong at all, infact there is no right or wrong, this way or that way. Truth is such that it is absolutely attribute-less.

Both are correct. Therefore what ever we describe or talk, we are just talking about the Ultimate Truth alone. The Self is Unlimited. Even if a person is talking against the truth vehemently, it is still happening at the grace of the Self alone, and even if a person is talking about the beauty of the Self, it is still happening at the grace of the Self alone.

It is all the manifestation of the Self alone. There are so many instances, where Bhagavan himself has given completely different answers to same question to different devotees. On one hand, He cleared so many doubts and questions of so many devotees and on the other hand he has  also said, "all doubts will cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. Seek for the source of the doubter, and you will find he is does not exist"

The Truth is such a Truth that everything points only to truth alone, even if one abuses, even if one praises, what ever.... there is just truth alone. anything and everything is truth. Such is the conviction.

Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanti

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 06:19:40 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 06:28:30 PM »
At this moment, I have the conviction to say that even sufferings and pains are also the Self. It is just when we see them as rivulsive that we think we are separate from the Self and that we need to get Self Realised. Are we separate from Self At any point of time? Infact the recognition of even those moments when we feel separate from Self is also Self is the Truth, the feelings of Separateness is also only the feeling of the Self alone. These pains and sufferings are not different from Self. When we begin to recognise this and accept these sufferings and pains as Self completely, there will not be any separateness. Self alone is.

Sufferings, Pains, Happiness, Joy are all just the same energy or manifestation of the same Self. Like scientifically, one cannot know the temperature by touching extreme Heat and Extreme Cold, like they appear as just the same, similarly these sufferings and pains are the same..

And when such a recognition happens, we would stop hating others and getting angry on others for their so called mistakes, etc...

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 06:46:12 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 09:58:08 AM »
Dear I,

By saying Mithya does not exist - are we not giving existence to mithya?
BY saying there is no question of "Suffering" being "part" of Self - are we not giving existence to a suffering?

That which is not there, why do we need to affirm that it is no there? which is why everything is Self alone.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

snow

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2010, 04:49:17 PM »
Atleast Shinzen Young gives these instructions to this meditation:

"Examples of things that you can stop doing are:

- Intentionally thinking (as opposed to thinking that just happens to you)
- Trying to focus on a certain thing
- Trying to have equanimity
- Trying to keep track of what’sgoing on
- Trying to meditate"

the whole instructions here:
http://www.shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/Return%20to%20the%20Source.pdf

Subramanian.R

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 09:06:05 AM »
Dear friend,

Yes.  You are correct.  Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman says
the same things as Shinzen Young.  Deliberate thinking - he
calls it as "thinking".  Thoughts that come and go on their own -
he calls it "thoughting".   Thoughting comes due to our vasanas.
This will go away in course of time.  Deliberate thinking only
should be avoided as far as possible.

Arunachala Siva.

Japo

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 12:25:14 PM »
I read the article that snow posted. In it Shinzen Young says that other practices that can lead to same goal as do-nothing-technique is self enquiry. Now, of course there are many variations of self-enquiry and it has been founded in many cultures and it is used in many spiritual pahts. So I don't know if he means Bhagavan's self-enquiry. But still wouldn't this do-nothing meditation be the same as Surrender?

amiatall

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Re: Is doing nothing meditation same as self-enquiry
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2010, 11:25:36 PM »
779. The nature of bondage is only the devastating thought that makes it appear that one exists separate from reality. Because it is assuredly impossible to become separate, distinct from reality, kick out that thought as soon as it arises.

776. The flawless supreme reality, true jnana, has the virtue of abiding as the one, perfect and primal entity. This God cannot be said to have a specific nature. Therefore, to rise as an individual, distinct from God, even in order to worship him, is wrong.

So basicly these two verses of GVK answers your surrender question if understood literally.

As for "do-nothing" meditation, let us see clearly that "do-nothing" is actually a doing, you can't do-nothing without doing it. Being is non doing, because we can't do being.