Author Topic: UGK & Ramana  (Read 11296 times)

soham3

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2010, 07:41:39 PM »
JK was not a jnani. He was merely an intellectual giant and a pervert at that.
 As for opinions of Maharaj about others, there was never any consistency & accuracy. He has branded ignoramuses and perverts as saints / jnanis. It could also be due to the fact that a jnani sees all living beings as jnanis.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Sadhak

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2010, 09:03:00 PM »
Those vasanas again makes one lose composure. We call somebody a pervert. So easy to do. What does that make of Bhagawan, Maharaj, Anandamayi Ma, Dalai Lama and the numerous religious figures who acclaimed him. We claim to be devotees of Bhagawan on one hand. Yet we refuse to accept his judement but would rather stick to our own views whatever they may be.


SLakshmi

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2010, 10:32:19 PM »
Mountain Path 1991, january and april editions have carried out several articles on this topic..

Subramanian.R

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2010, 09:15:35 AM »
Dear friends,

I have only three points on GK and JK.

a.  They were intellecutalizing concepts.  Bhagavan Ramana says
that the whole process towards self realization is de-intellecutalizing.

b.  Bhagavan Ramana never criticized any one else.  If you start
criticizing others, then one loses, as you have said, composure.
Bhagavan Ramana never lost His composure.  In no photos
you can see Him, either yawning, or closing His eyes, or straining
His knuckles.  These are all marks of composure.

c.  Bhagavan Ramana practised in this objective world, the codes
of the society.  He never went against the codes.  One of the
most important code is - never covet other man's wife, never
adulatare.  This is right from the period of Jesus Christ. If one can remain as a householder having sex and children, it is never a hindrance to your self realization. 

Arunachala Siva.     

soham3

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2010, 08:12:09 PM »
Rajagopal knew that when he is away from his home, Krish ( JK's nick-name ) enters his house and molests poor & helpless Rosalind. This act of Krish will cause such a fury in Rajagopal that he will border on  pouncing  upon JK.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Sadhak

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2010, 08:31:15 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

Whatever may be, JK has never given importance to the intellect in his teachings. Outwardly more emphatic than Bhagawan, he questioned the value of collecting such knowledge from books etc. His statement 'the ending of thought, is the beginning of wisdom' is quite telling. And his reverence for nature is pure bhakti.

Enough examples are available that Bhagawan did not follow all 'codes' at all times.

As far as Christ is concerned he was certainly not married to Mary (Magdella) in any of the scriptures. Not that it matters to his realization.



Sadhak

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2010, 08:37:46 PM »
There are far better sources on JK than Rajagopal who was found guilty of embezzling public funds in courts and was spared by JK.

Nagaraj

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2010, 08:39:45 PM »
In all, it really does not matter or even is it important to find out whether UGK, JK were realised or not, or whether their conduct was justifiable or not, it is more important that the 'I' which is in such a quest be sought.

In the end, have I got my bread and tea is what counts! Who am 'I' ?

Saluations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 08:41:36 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sadhak

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2010, 03:26:09 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,

You are correct. From a judgemental standpoint it is a waste of time to question whether somebody is realized or not. On the other hand, from a beginner's standpoint the company of jnanis or the contemplation of their teachings is bound to have some value in the spiritual quest. Unfortunately even this exposure is not possible if the mind is tightly closed by our vasanas that refuse to accept anything unless it conforms to our personal value system that has been created by the vasanas themselves. The loss is only ours.

Moral codes of society have some value to beginners but jnanis are not bound by them. No two jnanis need be the same outwardly. Though we may feel that we are living a spiritual life by adhering to the moral codes of society, such behaviour need not mean real spirituality. As the bible says, "This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts."




Nagaraj

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2010, 10:21:46 AM »
Dear I,

The ways of Jnanis are unknown. They are above all thought/ego foundation.

Like how the mind cannot know the Self, the same way, we cant know the Jnanis, for a Jnani and Self are one and the same. And when one finds his Guru, he would not know, what in his Guru, got him to His Guru. These are unknown to the realms of mind. To me, I see God/Guru even in the filthiest things in world, I go to the extent of saying that even the dirt and even human waste are all Grace in themselves, they are all God.

There is absolutely nothing where God is Not,

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2010, 10:51:48 AM »
Dear everyone,

I believe that we can stop disussing JK and GK.  Atleast, I shall do.

Arunachala Siva.

soham3

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2010, 08:32:43 PM »
(1) Jesus Christ was not a jnani. Please see Sarlo's guru rating service to know what was the real level & worth of Jesus.
(2) JK's fondness for ladies of the following backgrounds is well known :-
   (i) Parsees of Bombay,
   (ii) Maharashtrian brahmins,
   (iii) South Indian brahmins,
   (iv) Europeans  and
   (v) Americans. 
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Sadhak

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2010, 10:04:32 PM »
I have nothing more to say about allegations of Jesus and JK not being jnanis. There is another thread currently where a story describes the karma that one suffers by unintentionally offering food to a realized sage that has been contaminated by a leech. If we are incapable of understanding the teachings of any jnani (except our own favourite) we could at least refrain from senseless allegations against others. Bhagawan was very clear and so was his acclaim of Jesus and JK, whose teachings he was willing to discuss and explain.

The views of a rating service or a book authored by a criminal are hardly a counterweight to Bhagawan!

"It is the Spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail." (John 6:53)
 
"The vase contains the water, you have to drink the water, not worship the vase. Humanity worships the vase, forgets the water".  (J.Krishnamurti).


soham3

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2010, 07:33:30 PM »
Geoffrey D. Falk  and  Sarlo  are  both genii  who have done much research work.  We have to respect their conclusions.

Jesus & JK were both megalomaniacs.

(1) Jesus was a healer and a miracle-monger. Jesus harped on Jehovah.

(2) JK's mentor was a homo-sexual. That guy was C.W. Leadbeater of Theosophical  Society. Theosophists harped on their wire-pullers in Tibet.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

amiatall

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Re: UGK & Ramana
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2010, 03:58:06 PM »
Well, it depends a lot.
Ramana says somewhere scriptures are of no use and they really are of no use if one really sees, take a stance and look: a book with words, the words point facts: you are the world. That's all. Now scriptures can be closed and one needs to dwell on what it is meant by "you".
On the other hand scriptures are a big help. If mind is jumpy and one needs to sink in the facts that scriptures presents then one uses them and studies them until they sink in and until one really accepts the facts as facts and sees that as facts
On the third hand  ;) A lot of read them and read them and read them... and? that only adds to their ignorance (i will not lie if i say that this is the majority).

It depends who is asking and what is the position of the questioner.
There are same questions to which answer is given differently.

Again, expression of Truth IS always, the variety of expressions are legions.
Summing up:
JK: belief is nonsense; one needs to be light on oneself; investigate yourself; observe observer; learn to listen; meditations are nonsense; (because it implies reaching something but in Truth everything is other way around, you are Light then and only then meditation can start), religion is nonsense;
Ramana: Investigate yourself; Who is 'I'?; without the Seer there can be no Gods and Worlds(!!!!!!!!); you are the Self already; why bother about time, space, books etc.. where are everything in deep sleep?
Maharaj: Dwell in 'I AM'; don't believe anything; practice? what practice? don't even mention this word; you are guru and the disciple;

Why this path is said to be only for mature souls? Because the 'mature soul' concept implies that one is able to completely forget and drop everything in order to see the Truth. If one really accepts that without Seer there can be no Gods and Worlds then what is left to investigate is the Seer himself. This is the emphasis realized ones really tries to draw everyones attention on.. but unfortunately very very few actually is listening, instead they are listening to their ignorance which says "maybe this is good teaching, or that one is pathetic, another is saying bullshit, what about this God and other God?".
This is ridiculous.
If one truly tries to know himself at some point he will see, the only meaning *objects can have is the meaning you give them and in that instant when one sees one transcends it, that is all.
JK wanted to leave you naked without any ground standing on, that you could see finally..
Same with Maharaj (especially)
Same with Ramana (especially through silence).
Same with others.

If one doesn't accept that everything depends on Seer, then yes, he must go through other way which leads to the same Ocean.
To my mind one should drop that which holds him back from investigating Seer and it even means that at one point you will must drop your Gods and traditions too because you can never never never reach God, nor any tradition makes you closer to Him, for to know Him you must be Him that's all.

*objects: scriptures, gods, lights, visions, trees, rivers, man, authority, emotion, thought, feeling etc....

I don't like to read a lot, but I strongly want to say that I AM is the book of all books, i suggest to read it daily, not even daily, every second. Then there will be no need for any scriptures for you are the scripture itself.
Too simple too dificult.