Author Topic: Spiritual being-Human being  (Read 8024 times)

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Spiritual being-Human being
« on: August 17, 2008, 04:43:33 PM »
Are we human beings trying to have a spiritual experience or spiritual beings undergoing a transient human experience?All thoughts are welcome.
pvssnraju

nonduel

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 06:30:40 PM »
Dear DRPVSSNRAJU,

Neither!
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 01:01:46 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju and non duel, we are all living beings,
trying to find an answer, for the question that never was!

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2008, 08:16:27 AM »
Dear nonduel,
                  Your answer "neither"amounts to saying that we are nonbeings.Then who is writing these posts?
                   Kindly contemplate on the question again.
pvssnraju

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2008, 08:19:54 AM »
Dear subramanian,
                        The question is vital and there is an answer if we do self-enquiry sincerely.
pvssnraju

SANKAR

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2008, 10:40:44 AM »
WE ARE THE HUMAN BEING TRYING FOR SPIRITUAL EXPERIANCE
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2008, 11:44:57 AM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju & non duel,  Do not give out anger.  The anger
hits your Self.  Bhagavan says in Who am I? "Whatever one gives
to another, he is only giving to himself."

1.  To say that we are neither human beings nor spiritual beings
is not correct, in my opinion.  Underline, my opinion.

2.  Then to find out an answer, we may try this way:-

  a)We are all human beings.
  b)There is Spirit in us, the activtating force.  Hence we are also
       Spiritual.
  c)Why then, we are not able to be Spiritual but only mind and
      body beings?
  d)Because we forget the Self, like a lady who forgets the necklace
       around her neck and keep on searching.  There is anger, worry
       and fear in her.  The restlessness starts and the 'search' begins.
  e)Someone, like Bhagavan Ramana, a Guru, comes to us
       and shows the necklace.  Like the lady, who was all along
       searching for the necklace "outside", we were searching
      "outside" and then we come to know it is within us.

   d)That is SELF REALIZATION.

   c)Finally we find out that we are not mind-body beings but
       only SPIRITUAL HUMAN BEINGS.

Now I am starting one more round of discussions.  Should we be
only Human beings to become Spiritual Human Beings?   Then,
how about Cow Lakshmi, which got Mukti?  How about Jadabharata?

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 03:00:06 PM »
Dear subramanian,
                        Probably my language shows that i am angry towards somebody.Today nonduel posted me an affectionate letter.There are no
differences between me and other forum members.Anyway i will take care of my language.
                        Jada Bharata and cow lakshmi are advanced souls incarnated in an animal body.Many say cow lakshmi is aku kurala avva
who took care of Bhagawan in his early days of stay at Arunachala hill.Bhagawan declared that cow Lakshmi attained liberation without
his help because she is so pure without any tendencies in contrast to Bhagawan's mother who required help of Bhagawan for liberation.
Many say the white peacock presented to Bhagawan by Baroda queen is none other than Madhava Swami who served Bhagawan
for many years.I feel that all these beings deserve what they got because of purity of heart irrespective of which body they wear.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 03:08:24 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju,  Excellent insights.  Thank you.  In Tamil
books it is said that Cow Lakshmi was Echammal in its previous
birth.  The white peacock was Madhava Swami, as David Godman
writes. There is one more incident mentioned in Arunachala Purana,
that an advanced soul was born again as a bush of thorns, in the Hill,
to clear the prarabdha, and it caught fire and disppeared, when
some great Jnani trampled on it!  There are also stories like this
in Srimad Bhagavatam also.  Like Gajendra, for example.

Arunachala Siva. 

nonduel

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2008, 03:56:39 PM »
Are we human beings trying to have a spiritual experience or spiritual beings undergoing a transient human experience?All thoughts are welcome.


Dear Raju, Subramanian,

I do not understand in what way my answer "neither" could remotely be seen as anger!!!

I wrote neither because the question asks in the first part if we are human beings. The human beings are illusions, they do not exist. The biggest obstacle is the thought "I am the body", consequently what other answer can be given to this first part?

The second part of the question asks if we are spiritual beings. It is the same to me. It implies multitude of beings and individuality instead of oneness.

Thus my answer "neither" was a reflection of theses points, never a demonstration of an atom of anger. I honestly do not understand, and I respect and love too much everyone here to react with anger.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 04:00:23 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                  Your answer "neither"amounts to saying that we are nonbeings.Then who is writing these posts?
                   Kindly contemplate on the question again.

Dear Raju,

This is what I am saying, nonduel doesn't exist. He is an actor on a movie screen that Self believe to be Itself. This actor is writing and this is part of the script of the movie he is in. I answer from the position that only the Self IS.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 04:08:33 PM »
Dear non duel,  Cool answer.  In the Self, which is the One
without second, there is no spirit, no human, because to
adjectify the Self, we are doing dis-service.  The question
was raised from Raju's point of view and the answer was
given from non duel's point of view.  But ultimately, there is
neither Raju nor non duel.  But you may appreciate the fact
that all such questions are raised from the duality point of
view and also all answers are given from the duality point of
view.  In the Self, where is the questioner and answerer?
This is what Gaudapada Karika says, when it states:
"There is no creation, no dissolution..." etc.,

Anger was again inferred by me and you say that there was
no anger.  That is all. 

If there is no duality and all is the Self, then, as I said the Forum
has to close the shutters, because all are the Self.

Arunachala Siva.       

nonduel

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 04:44:29 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

I agree with your last reply.

Remember when we exchanged on the Ribhu Gita and the translation of "Bhavana"?

I have since then read others replies from Sri Ramana which emphasize this point. Thus I try to always consider from the position of Self towards questions. Sri Ramana always refused to even sign with his name, so completely he didn't identify with the physical body called Ramana.

It is a way, for me, to discriminate and not identify with the body.

Of course this isn't always feasable and question from the duality perspective is inevitable, and I reply from that position most of the time.

I have difficulties in expressing this correctly. It comes to "developing" the conviction that I AM SELF, and as often as possible to look from this points. Cultivate this.

Badly expressed, but I hope you understand what I am trying clumsily to convey here.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 04:48:05 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                  Are you a screen with pictures or are you a picture trying to find the screen.Do you deny existence of both?  
pvssnraju

nonduel

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Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2008, 05:21:11 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                  Are you a screen with pictures or are you a picture trying to find the screen.Do you deny existence of both?  

Dear Raju,

I Am Self and thus, I am the screen, the picture and the projector. As nonduel, I am a picture trying to find the screen (projector). But I can also answer that I am neither of these because there is only one without another.

All questions are in duality, and can be all answered from duality. It isn't out of disrespect that I try to answer from the Self. Because I AM THAT! 

It is nonduel's way of discriminating. I am convinced that I AM THAT and to be consistant with this conviction, I try to always "see" from that position. Sri Ramana returned the questions to "Who is asking", always bringing the devotee to the Self.

Self-Enquiry is keeping the attention on the self, I am trying to do so in replying to questions. Please do not see this as a lack of respect to your questions.

Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.