Author Topic: How to watch the sense 'I am'  (Read 14522 times)

amiatall

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2010, 08:44:20 PM »
Consciousness is aware of itself. I am that i am. Means that one is aware of oneself.
Even if it is impossible to watch 'i am', to my mind, this is the main reason why one should try to watch or understand 'i am'. Who knows, maybe one is not even this 'i am' or the subject one takes oneself to be.
Maybe there is something that witnesses both subject and object but is out of context of this duality.

Nagaraj

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2010, 09:41:00 PM »
Dear I,

Nisargadatta Maharaj said that it is very important to watch "I-am-ness" all the time.

How is that possible? 
How can the subject watch the subject itself?

Bhagavans explanation is given below -

"First the Self sees itself as object, then the Self sees itself as Void, and finally it sees itiself as Self, here there is no seeing as seeing is being"

The subject is ego, ego first begins watching itself, ego watching ego, and as a result of such an enquiry ego ceases to exist and Self shines and when this (occurs) the Subject will not be there, the ego will not be there, the very need to know that you are the Self has to end.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2010, 08:55:56 AM »
Dear I,

All interpretations and understanding are correct. There is no need for a confirmation from 'anothers' expereience, for understanding. For, it is ultimately only an acknowledgement for knowledge what one already has, thats all. If 'anothers' experience matches with our existing understanding, mind or the ego or the little 'I' nods in confirmation and at the same time, if the 'anothers' experience does not matches with our existing understanding, mind or the ego or the little 'I' nods in non confirmation and this leads to discussions, etc... anhd the Mind - ego - little 'I' goes on discussing so long the so called 'another' confirms to its own existing or preconceived knowledge.

The 'one' that wants knowledge is the ego, the knowledge that is being created in the process is also the ego's. The Mind some how wants to be acknowledged as a 'Jnani' or it wants to be acknowledged as a super consciousness, or it wants to just enjoy, relish having the title of "Self" or acknowledgement for having 'Self-Realised'

So in all these, who is the one that is wanting to get 'realised'? it is the ego - mind - little 'I'. Its like, as a stage drama is being enacted, you act as 'Ravana' character and forget that you are just the actor, and as a character - 'Ravana' tries to realise its Self as 'Rama' - which eventually becomes another character in itself. The ego - mind - little 'I' gets lost in the character of 'Ravana' tries so hard to realised its Self as 'Rama' instead of just casting away just the character of Ravana and remain as the one who performed the character.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2010, 09:45:28 AM »
Dear I,

that means, like Krishna says in the Gita, Uddaret Atmanaatmaanam, the Self is its own friend and foe, one has to lift Himself from his own higher Self and not let itself fall from its own lower Self.

Mis-interpretaions and mis understandings are biggest grace in themselves, they bestow higher grace than 'Knowledge' itself. It is only because of Mis-interpretaions and mis understandings that we begin to enquire further.

More over it is only the Mind that distinguishes between Misunderstanding and Understanding.

Meditation, for is just being aware of ones own ego, till it gets dissolved into nothingness or everything ness.

Meditation is for me, "Chumma Iru", "Just being" Let all move around you, Just Be.

Bhagavan says - "To know and not to think"

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2010, 10:03:11 AM »
The non existent ego coming out of the non existent mind watches the Self.  But
in the beginning, it watches only the thoughts.  In a thoughtless abandon, it watches
the Self, in the sense it becomes the Self.  The last stage, " watching the Self and
being the Self" is through Guru's Grace.  Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala
Akshara Mana Maalai: Do not show the mirror to this noseless person and makes him
ashamed.  Please lift me up and hug me. (AAMM 91)

Arunachala Siva. 

ramana_maharshi

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2010, 02:58:40 PM »
Nice discussion.

Nice points raised by subramanian garu,nagaraj garu and udai garu.

I agree with subramanian garu regarding Suddha Manas,or Sattva Manas, which does not produce any prarabdha effect. Bhagavan Ramana did write books, did have some thoughts,why only thoughts, He did have dreams too.   

I agree with udai garu regarding we cannot have control over our thoughts and it is not like we desire and hence we have thoughts.

Only because we cannot have control over our thoughts several techniques like breath control,self enquiry.... are mentioned.

In Bhagavad Gita  Ch6 Text35 Lord Krishna says,

The Blessed Lord said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by constant practice and by detachment.

Here detachment means having strong conviction that ' i am not the mind,body,senses...' which reminds Adi sankara's Nirvana Satakam poem.

Once bhagavan said

If the outlook changes, the troubles of the world will not worry us. Are the waves different from the ocean? Why do the waves occur at all? If asked, what reply can we give? The troubles in the world also are like that. Waves come and go. If it is found out that they are not different from Atma this worry will not exist.”


Subramanian.R

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2010, 12:51:10 PM »

Dear prasanth,

In this connection, Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman brings a new
dimension.  He says that there is thinking and there is also 'thoughting'.  Thinking is deliberate indulgence in a thought or an
emotion.  For example, tomorrow my son is coming.  Should I keep
the alarm-ring since he arrives by very early morning flight and be
at home around 3.30 AM.   This is thinking, and there is a chain
of thoughts.

Now what is this 'thoughting'?  Thoughts just come and go without
any effort on my part.  Suddenly on a rainy evening in Bangalore,
I think of my sister falling while alighting from the bus in Chennai,
since the road was wet and slippery due to rain.  Suddenly I think
of modakams that my mother would prepare for Sri Ganesa
Chaturthi.  I think of my old house in Tiruchy with rickety doors
and windowless rooms, where one had to put on the light even during day time.  There are so many examples.   Nochur Venkataraman says that these thoughtings are also coming out of vasanas but they are harmless, and there is no ego involved there.

Arunachala Siva. 

ramana_maharshi

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Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2010, 01:21:06 PM »
well said Subramanian garu.

have a nice time with your son sir.