Author Topic: How to watch the sense 'I am'  (Read 13647 times)

snow

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 07, 2010, 06:36:33 PM »
Nisargadatta Maharaj said that it is very important to watch "I-am-ness" all the time. I don't however understand what this sense "I Am" contains. Does it include seeing, smelling, hearing etc.? Should I be mindful of these also? Or is it enough if I just do like  Maharshi said: "Get rid of your present thoughts, that is all."

This however seems a little difficult (atleast when I'm not meditating). But would you say that just letting go of thinking is basically all that is necessary.

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 07:24:19 AM »
Dear Snow,

Good question.
It is the natural feeling of the sense of "I am" which Nisargadatta Maharaj is pointing to.
This feeling is there even if we shut out our senses. For example:
We can close our eyes and shut out the sense of vision. "I am" is still there.
We can close our ears with our fingers and shut out the sense of hearing. "I am" is still there.
We can close our mouth and shut out the sense of taste. "I am" is still there.
So what is this "I am" which seems to be independent of senses etc.
How far can we go towards its source?

Bhagavan Ramana says to find out, "from where this 'I' arises".
In the process attention will go towards the pure consciousness within.

Nisargadatta Maharaj says to remain with the sense of "I am" at its root (as far as possible) without allowing thoughts to extend "I am" as "I am this or that" (like "I am Henry", "I am a teacher", "I am feeling hot" etc.). The effect of this is also to take one towards the pure consciousness within.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45663
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 08:36:31 AM »
The state of I AM is simply I AM. 
It is defintely not I am this or I am that.
I AM is the state of Existence/Witness.

Dear snow, it is ver difficult to remain in that I AM. That is why
Bhagavan Ramana said:  Ask for whom this thought?  It is for me.
Who am I?  Keep on killing the soldiers coming out of the enemy
fortress.  It is difficult, so Bhagavan said Atma Vidya is very easy.
It is because, we are carrying huge dirt of thoughts and vasanas,
from many  previous births.  Guru's Grace alone will remove it one
stroke, like the Sun removes the darkness of a room, closed and kept in darkness for years.   

Arunachala Siva.

snow

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 04:27:53 PM »
Dear Snow,

Good question.
It is the natural feeling of the sense of "I am" which Nisargadatta Maharaj is pointing to.
This feeling is there even if we shut out our senses. For example:
We can close our eyes and shut out the sense of vision. "I am" is still there.
We can close our ears with our fingers and shut out the sense of hearing. "I am" is still there.
We can close our mouth and shut out the sense of taste. "I am" is still there.
So what is this "I am" which seems to be independent of senses etc.
How far can we go towards its source?

Bhagavan Ramana says to find out, "from where this 'I' arises".
In the process attention will go towards the pure consciousness within.

Nisargadatta Maharaj says to remain with the sense of "I am" at its root (as far as possible) without allowing thoughts to extend "I am" as "I am this or that" (like "I am Henry", "I am a teacher", "I am feeling hot" etc.). The effect of this is also to take one towards the pure consciousness within.

Thanks this is very helpful. =)

Quote
The state of I AM is simply I AM.
It is defintely not I am this or I am that.
I AM is the state of Existence/Witness.

Dear snow, it is ver difficult to remain in that I AM. That is why
Bhagavan Ramana said:  Ask for whom this thought?  It is for me.
Who am I?  Keep on killing the soldiers coming out of the enemy
fortress.
It is difficult, so Bhagavan said Atma Vidya is very easy.
It is because, we are carrying huge dirt of thoughts and vasanas,
from many  previous births.  Guru's Grace alone will remove it one
stroke, like the Sun removes the darkness of a room, closed and kept in darkness for years.   


Arunachala Siva.
Is this one necessary to say? Isn't it pretty obivious? I find this not to be as powerful question to the mind than "Who am I" which is (like Adyashanti said) an alarm clock thrown in the dream.

And can Bhagavan be my guru even though he left his body decades ago?

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45663
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 04:50:24 PM »
Dear snow,

"I find this one as not powerful question..."  - I am not clear
as to what this question, which is not powerful, that you refer.
Kindly let me know.

Should Bhagavan Ramana be only living in a body, to be our Guru?
He remained in body for some years.  One cannot live for ever in
body.  Further, why do you associate a body, for selecting a guru?
Only those who are body conscious should worry about the guru being
in body.  Is not His Presence, powerful enough, to be your Guru?
His Presence is all pervading but the power is felt at its highest
in His Samadhi as well as in Old Hall, where He sat for 23 years
and guided devotees.  If you visit T'malai next time, kindly sit
in the Samadhi Hall or Old Hall, for about an hour.  You shall
definitely feel the Power of Presence, engulfing you. 

Arunachala Siva.     

snow

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 05:07:36 PM »
Dear snow,

"I find this one as not powerful question..."  - I am not clear
as to what this question, which is not powerful, that you refer.
Kindly let me know.

Should Bhagavan Ramana be only living in a body, to be our Guru?
He remained in body for some years.  One cannot live for ever in
body.  Further, why do you associate a body, for selecting a guru?
Only those who are body conscious should worry about the guru being
in body.  Is not His Presence, powerful enough, to be your Guru?
His Presence is all pervading but the power is felt at its highest
in His Samadhi as well as in Old Hall, where He sat for 23 years
and guided devotees.  If you visit T'malai next time, kindly sit
in the Samadhi Hall or Old Hall, for about an hour.  You shall
definitely feel the Power of Presence, engulfing you.  

Arunachala Siva.    
Thanks

I meant this part:
"Bhagavan Ramana said: Ask for whom this thought?"

And I asked earlier.
Quote
But would you say that just letting go of thinking is basically all that is necessary.

Is it? :)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45663
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 06:11:04 PM »
Dear snow,

Yes.  Letting go of all thoughts about the objective world - is
the thoughtless state, that is essential for self enquiry.  Thought
about God within, Bhagavan Ramana says, Atma Nishtaparan, in
Who am I? is the greatest devotion.  Hence this thought should
be retained till it matures into surrender.  Once the total surrender
becomes your nature, there is no need even for thought of God, since
there is only God within you and not any more of you.

The question, for whom this thought arises? is necessary and must
be continued, till worldly thoughts keep bothering you.  At one stage, for whom this thought arises? - will not arise at all.  That
is abidance in Self.  If this abidance in Self becomes permanent,
then it is Sahaja Stithi.  Thereafter every worldly activity of yours
will be done by That, as Ribhu Gita, Ch.26 Verse 25 states.

Arunachala Siva. 

rideforever

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 10:37:14 PM »
What is the feeling of existing ?  Seek within.  What is the feeling on existing ?  Now.

Sometimes I call myself to find myself : Q : hello ?   A : hmm ?   Q: hello ?   A:ar hmmm ?  Q:hello ?   A:... I am here ?

But I am is coloured by the impressions/conditioning picked up.  Holding the I am, deeper and deeper into the I am you go, beyond the impressions until there is just I am, and then one step further ... which cannot be described.
* Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!  Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered,
* A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
* Ride now, ride for ruin and the world's ending                                       
* Death !!  Death !!  Death !!

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45663
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 08:58:26 AM »
Yes, this constant ramming of the door is essential, vide
Bhagavan Ramana's Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse 5.

Arunachala Siva.

matthias

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 10:08:35 PM »
dear snow I would like to anwer your first questions..


the sense of "Iam" is effortless, so making effort to reach it is impossible..you can try but hte more oyu try the more you will be hard in the chest, the energy will move to your head and you will find meditaitng is very exhausting...

this is a misstake that I do and others do...so maybe this could save some time

noone has ever seen this "Iam"...it is not an object to meditate about, infact the more we try to reach it the more we are in ignorance of our true nature

warding of thoughts cna be missunderstood, beeing thougtless is nice but temporary what we look for is ever present conciousness...wich does not care aout our thoughts...so best thing is to be that wich does not care wether thoughts are there or not...

hope I could be of help

matthias
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 01:22:09 PM by matthias »

snow

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 08:39:46 PM »
Quote
The question, for whom this thought arises? is necessary and must
be continued, till worldly thoughts keep bothering you.  At one stage, for whom this thought arises? - will not arise at all.  That
is abidance in Self.  If this abidance in Self becomes permanent,
then it is Sahaja Stithi.  Thereafter every worldly activity of yours
will be done by That, as Ribhu Gita, Ch.26 Verse 25 states.

Hmm okay, but I still have a tendency to make obsessions very easily so I think this would this form of enquiry would be more of a hindrance than an aid. And I've never read Nisargadatta recommending this question to asked.


Quote
dear snow I would like to anwer your first questions..


the sense of "Iam" is effortless, so making effort to reach it is impossible..you can try but hte more oyu try the more you will be hard in the chest, the energy will move to your head and you will find meditaitng is very exhausting...

this is a misstake that I do and others do...so maybe this could save some time

noone has ever seen this "Iam"...it is not an object to meditate about, infact the more we try to reach it the more we are in ignorance of our true nature

warding of thoughts cna be missunderstood, beeing thougtless is nice but temporary what we look for is ever present conciousness...wich does not care aout our thoughts...so best thing is to be that wich does not care wether thoughts are there or not...

hope I could be of help

matthias

Thanks matthias, I'll try to remember this :)

rideforever

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 09:23:30 PM »
the sense of "Iam" is effortless, so making effort to reach it is impossible..you can try but hte more oyu try the more you will be hard in the chest, the energy will move to your head and you will find meditaitng is very exhausting...

this is a misstake that I do and others do...so maybe this could save some time

noone has ever seen this "Iam"...it is not an object to meditate about, infact the more we try to reach it the more we are in ignorance of our true nature

warding of thoughts cna be missunderstood, beeing thougtless is nice but temporary what we look for is ever present conciousness...wich does not care aout our thoughts...so best thing is to be that wich does not care wether thoughts are there or not...

Please help me understand.  You say do not try ... so you mean do nothing ?  Or are you saying do something subtle ?
* Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!  Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered,
* A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
* Ride now, ride for ruin and the world's ending                                       
* Death !!  Death !!  Death !!

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 09:28:47 PM »
Dear I,

It takes a mammoth effort to do something, to think and it takes absolutely no effort at all to simply be. This is the greatest irony that 'mind' thinks  other wise and never rests! This is the essence of 'I am'

Just cast of the very need to understand this and simply be. do not attempt to know or even bother to answer your question, cast of your very question itself, relax and just be. You do not need to know anything about "I am" that is really being 'I am'

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 04:19:09 PM »
Dear I,

The moment you responded, you are not just being. You - 'I' - Thoughts just don't want to be. see it wants to continue.

Quote
But moments of anger, jealousy, lust, fear, worry , guilt ... they come automatically ... very fast. So fast that the person does not get time to remember your statement until some time!  

they don't come automatically, it comes because there is a need for all these emotions. To put it more clearly, these emotions arise because when any thought which arises and questions the very foundation of you - 'I' - your thoughts, then it responds frantically, anger, fear, etc.. comes because it itself is under threat, its place is under question. hence these emotions arise.

And at the same time, if any emotions such as comforting or happiness arises, it is nothing but anything that is conforming to what it already knows, it feels stronger, its place is assured, hence such emotions.

emotions such as lust arise because of its inherent need of security to exist permanently. Lust need not necessarily be physical, money, material etc.. are all accumulated because of insecurity or incmpleteness.

Quote
If the person is already JUST IS, this is redundant to say.
if the person is not already JUST IS, this statement does not help him ... coz his mind wont allow him to just be! he has no choice.  


If the person is already as you say Just Is, then he would not have posted it here. and as you say "if the person is not already JUST IS, this statement does not help him ... coz his mind wont allow him to just be! he has no choice." is because, thoughts have to die, Manonasham is this. Thoughts - you - 'I' need thoughts to survive.

The very moment you read this post you have already put effort. Just Be is zero effort. zero thinking, where you can't see that you are not thinking for if you begin to see that you are not thinking, you have put an effort there. Just Be.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 04:23:42 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 04:43:29 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Is eating and drinking also part of effort and one requires to refrain from them to "Just Be"?
What do you say?

I am trying to understand whether it can be classified as a thoughtful or thoughtless activity.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...