Author Topic: Now this question  (Read 6489 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Now this question
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 01:33:55 PM »
Dear I,

Yes, what you say is absolutely correct, Now what I observe of it is, though 'I' - mind was aware of its own limitedness, that it is the demand of the Jiva, etc... and at the same time some force or some power within, what we call consciousness also kept reminding about ignoring the demands of the 'I' of seeking solace. Sometimes, what happens is that the 'I' its existence is pretty strong that even when the Consciousness kept reminding and hinting itself, it was not enough. Hence, each time, when there is this war, like in Mahabharata, 'I' - Arjuna needs Krishna - Consciousness to convince itself 'I' - Arjuna, His Real Nature.

Sometimes, this 'I-ness' becomes very strong because of Vasanas, then is when we need grace. Due to the pull of Vasanas, it becomes even difficult to even see that grace is readily available and suffers as a consequence, but 'I' realise that it is just a way or some kind of teaching from my beloved Guru, who like, a bird, pushes its own chick from the nest and let it fall down so that it can learn to fly, independently. His grace is like what Shankara says in Satasloki that Chintamani is an inferior simile. Chintamani can only convert the metal into gold. It cannot convert the metal into Chintamani itself. But guru does that alchemy. He transfigures the disciple into his own likeness through Atmajnana.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Now this question
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2010, 08:51:03 PM »
The only way is to surrender to Guru/God.  He does not care for
the jivas' mistakes and pitfalls, sins and wrongdoings.  He wants
you to protect you and for that he needs one's total surrender.
Draupadi was calling Krishna with many names, when she was
being disrobed. But she was holding tight the saree at one end.
When she left that hand, and raised both the hands in total surrender, Krishna made her saree to grow endlessly and Dushasan
became tired and fell down.  Raising both the hands, without
bothering about the saree end falling down, is total surrender.
At that moment, God comes to your rescue.  But God / Guru
does not act against nature.  The sarees simply grew. He did
not cause a massive heart attack to Duschasan to die.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Now this question
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2010, 10:57:44 AM »
Holding the saree in one hand and asking Krishna to come, is at best, partial surrender.  Raising both the hands, without caring for
the saree to fall completely, is total surrender.  Bhagavan Ramana
says:  Nin Ishtam, En Ishtam.... You wish is my wish.  He has also
said:  Irunthapadiye Iru, Guru AruL seluthum vazhiyil sel.  "Be as
you are.  Go by the way that Guru directs you.

Saree may grow.  Or she may herself disappear in thin air, so that
there is no further loss of self respect for her.  Or Dushasan may
fall down bleeding in mouth and die.  Anything was possible by
Krishna's grace.  No need to expect any particular way of safeguard.

Arunachala Siva.

Arunachala Siva.   

ramanaduli

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Re: Now this question
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2010, 08:12:38 PM »
To get the grace of God, we have to go through many hurdles without any expection from God. Just I want to know whether is there any one
who was blessed with ikaloga sukha and paraloka sukha. All true devotees suffered lot. For jnanis it is ok but for normal human being it is very
difficult to cultivate bhakti.Many times many people ask me why true bhaktas have lot of problems. I think is it their prarabta or God is testing?



Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Now this question
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 11:11:08 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

The standard example of a Jnani also enjoying material riches
(Ikaloka sukha) is Janaka.  Sri Ramakrishna used to say that
Janaka drinks milk from two cups!  A Jnani does not care for
ikaloka sukha but it sometimes comes out of its own accord by
divine will.  Such pleasures which came in his way, without asking,
does not in any way belittle his state of Atma Jnana.

Once a devotee who had seen Bhagavan Ramana in Virupakshi
Cave eating only cold rice and lying on a stone-bench came to
see Him again after 20 years.  Now he saw Bhagavan Ramana
sitting on a sofa with pillows and eating hot food served at stroke
of the bell, with incense throwing up nice fragrance around His sofa
all the time.  Somehow, these 'scenes' did not satisfy the devotee.
He came to Bhagavan and said:  "Swami, You have been spoiled!"
Bhagavan Ramana readily answered:  "Yes, Yes, I have been spoiled!"    The devotee was satisfied and he left the place.
Others in the Old Hall, were murmuring as to why Bhagavan
should say this.  Bhagavan Ramana knew their minds and said:
"What wrong did I do?  In Virupaksha Cave as well as in Asramam
now, "I' has been spoiled (beyond redemption).  And that is all
I meant."  All the devotees laughed.

Bhagavan Ramana has said to Annamalai Swami:  The good benefits
that are accruing to you without your desire-ship or doer-ship,
you can enjoy since they do not create any further 'agami' sin
for you.

Arunachala Siva.