Author Topic: Spiritual Arithmetic  (Read 5261 times)

soham3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • External world is shadow of what is inside you
    • View Profile
Spiritual Arithmetic
« on: December 12, 2009, 09:07:50 PM »
I have sat near samadhi of Ramana and felt spiritual aura or sat-chit-ananda. If total fund or quantum of  sat-chit-ananda is constant then the spiritual aura at the adjacent places must have weakened.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Chuck Cliff

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 11:18:10 AM »
Assuming that sat-chit-anand was finite -- that might be the case.  One could heave bathtubs full of sat-chit-anand "out" of Truth and not decrease it one whit -- or fill it with mega oceans of Love and not increase one tiny bit. :P

But there is a another aspect one might contend, if so inclined -- that is, that the "flow" of sat into the physical world is limited by the nature of the world.  In this line of thinking, then there would, in fact be a bit more aura in the area around the samadhi because of overflow seeping out, so to speak.

The bottom line of what I think is a consensus is that God is not time or space. That implies, that the manifestation on the Holy Hill which is known to us as Ramana at Arunachala is there where it always has been and always will be. 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 04:24:19 PM by Chuck Cliff »
There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

soham3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • External world is shadow of what is inside you
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 04:20:30 PM »
The assumption here is that sat-chit-anand is finite -- it's not.  You could heave bathtubs full "out" of Truth and not decrease it one whit -- or fill it with mega oceans and not increase one tiny bit. :P

You mean total quantity of  Sat-Chit-Ananda increases as number of tombs of saints increases ?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 09:38:02 PM by soham3 »
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Chuck Cliff

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 11:08:29 AM »
Quote
You mean total Sat-Chit-Ananda increases as number of tombs of saints increases ?
-- hardly.  I meant that Awareness-Being-Love is not finite (saying that it is infinite, is probably not quite the word, but it certainly better than "finite"). 

In any case, the apparent concentration of peace at a saint's samadhi could hardly mean that there was less elsewhere, let alone near the place. 

Mind you, this is just me trying to formulate how this looks to me: when you go to a sacred place, at the same time you orient yourself toward a place of no time or space (if you don't you won't experience the sacredness of the place).   This "place" is sat-chit-anand (perhaps more correctly an aspect of the Place). 

A lot of people (hopefully most) are to some degree oriented towards God and will notice something near an especially sacred place.  For this we have the witness of a lot of people who been to Arunachala. 



 

There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

Vladimir

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 02:20:42 PM »
Quote
To put it another way ... that peace which you experienced near Ramana's Samadhi was not real ... it was like an illusion created by a magician. I know many people will beat me for it ... but only that which is Ever Present ... nonchanging is SAT ... all motion is mithya.

Dear Srkudai,

That "peace" is more real than everithing else. Just don't call in "peace'. Don't call in anything at all and don't use your mind to compare. Bhagavan is more real than this world.
Nobody will beat you for what realy exists do nothing. :)

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 04:45:56 PM »
Question: Can the Guru’s silence bring about realisation if the disciple makes no effort?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: In the proximity of a great master, the vasanas (subtle impressions that lead to desires) cease to be active, the mind becomes still and Samadhi results. Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master. To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary. Eventually the disciple will know it to be his real being and will thus be liberated even while alive.

---
The above saying by Bhagavan brings out the following points:
1. Great Master's presence has an effect on the disciples which stills the mind and can even bring about Samadhi. Thus a Great Master's presence is "tangible" and not mere imagination.

2. Even though the experience felt in the Master's presence fades away when the disciple goes away from the Master, it does not mean that the knowledge and experience felt in the Master's presence was false/imaginative. It only fades away due to the covering of the desires and other thoughts due to vasanas. Subsequently when the disciple "uncovers" the knowledge by effort, he/she will find that it is qualitatively same as that felt in the Master's presence.


Thus a Great Master can give a "foretaste" of spiritual knowledge to persons in spite of their vasanas. These experiences are transformative and often make persons mend their ways and take to a spiritual life. How can an ordinary person beset with vasanas get a foretaste of spirituality without the presence of a saint? Books are of limited help compared to the presence of saints. If books keeps a person in 2-dimensional plane, a Master's presence can lift him to the 3rd dimension.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

soham3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • External world is shadow of what is inside you
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 09:56:38 PM »
I tend to agree with srkudai's approach.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 08:09:07 AM »
To obtain the grace of the Master, some amount of readiness is required from the aspirants also. Because some people fall asleep does not mean that the Presence cannot be felt by anyone. Even doing self-enquiry people can fall asleep, it does not mean that self-enquiry is wrong. Even discriminating that "I am not this...I am not that" people can fall asleep, it does not mean that the method is useless.

The Gopis of Vrindavana has simple faith on Lord Krishna. They obtained the highest devotion. Arjuna treated Shri Krishna as his friend and was not interested in Self knowledge. But during the beginning of Bhagavat Gita, Arjuna, totally confused, surrendered to Krishna. Only then he started getting the grace of Shri Krishna. Shri Krishna went out of the way and revealed even the Vishwaroopa to Arjuna.

As long as the mind becomes pure by surrendering to God, emotions are not obstructions to self-realization but on the other hand they become aid to it. Sri Ramakrishna was emotional throughout his life, so were most of the Alwars and Nayanmars.

With simple-minded faith, devotion and yearning, one receives the grace of Bhagavan. People with their own complicated and doubting mind, obstruct the grace of saints. They conjure up some logic forgetting that the Self Itself has incarnated to shower grace to one and all.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

soham3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • External world is shadow of what is inside you
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 10:15:17 PM »
As per Vasishtha and Gaudapada, we are imagining ourselves & others and worlds, universes and realms. In truth / reality, nothing is there.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47994
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 01:35:50 PM »
1. Sat-Chit Ananda is infinite in the sense, there is only This,
and and nothing else.  This boundless ocean of bliss, also
contains bubbles with vasanas inside.   The bubbles would
become the Ocean once it breaks and that is destruction of vasanas.

2. The Jnana Guru Himself is Satchit Ananda.  As one of you
pointed out, our devoted and concentrated presence in His Presence,
speed up the destruction of vasanas.  In between, even before the
vasanas are completely burnt out, the glimpse of the Self is conferred by the Guru, as a foretaste.  It is a dry run of an assasination.  Once one is ready, the assassination of vasanas
is complete.

3. If one gets Peace in the presence of a Guru, then such a guru
is Brahma Jnani.  A Brahma Jnani even after his leaving the body,
projects his Peace, if the visitor to the Samadhi is a fit receipient.

Arunachala Siva
 

soham3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • External world is shadow of what is inside you
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 10:16:34 PM »
At samadhi of Sri Aurobindo & Mother at Pondicherry, my being got arrested. At a distance of 100 M from there, I teased a foreign lady and she reported against me. Could be that spiritual field away from the samadhi got diminished.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47994
    • View Profile
Re: Spiritual Arithmetic
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2009, 08:39:05 AM »
I am not sure.  Perhaps Vasanas were too heavy that you have
to work out purity, a little more, to some extent and then visit.

Arunachala Siva.