Author Topic: The corruption of Satsanga  (Read 8623 times)

Graham

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The corruption of Satsanga
« on: December 15, 2009, 04:58:19 AM »
The real meaning of Satsang is 'association with the Wise', preferably the Self-realised Sages (Jnani's) who speak only of God and fully practice dharma (righteousness), though Sages who are not yet Self-realised, but live according to the rules of dharma are also considered to be Wise. Association with the wise is said to be the root-cause of all that is good.

Jnani's are dharma personified, they NEVER stray from it, even for a split second. They are identical with God and nothing is beyond them. They know the world to be an illusion and have little or no interest in it. They do not seek to accumulate wealth or property, they are not interested in fame or acquiring followers. They do not advertise nor entice others to advertise for them - God does not need to advertise, He is the soul of everything.

Just before Bhagavan left the body, Chadwick and others approached Him and asked Him how they could repay Him, should they write books, tell the world about Him, etc. He replied "Put my teachings into practice".

Today the word 'satsang' is widely used to promote what can only be described as talking-shops (the opposite of satsang), where self-appointed gurus pontificate about subjects they know little or nothing about, manufacture their own poisoned theories, indulge in cheap psychology and pursue their vices. They also expect you to pay for all of this in every possible way.

It is also widely used for meditation sessions, but this is not true satsang by any stretch of the imagination.

The primary requisite for those seeking self-realisation is the ability to discriminate between that which is useful and that which is useless/harmful in the search. Becoming attached to the wrong person or group can do immeasurable harm, not only in life in general, but can also disturb and even destroy budding faith; it is therefore imperative that caution is exercised in every possible way.

You must carefully weigh up everything that you see and hear. Clear teachings are available from the publications of Sri Ramanasramam and ancient scriptures such as - Tripura Rahasya, The Srimad Bhagavata, Advaita Bodha Deepika, Yoga Vasistha Sara, The Bhagavad Gita, Ribhu Gita, etc. If what you hear is contrary in any way to the essence of these works, then do not return.

People were attracted to Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi by his purity and simplicity. Measure anyone who promotes themselves as a guru by the conduct of Bhagavan and you will not go wrong. But also bear in mind that it is fairly easy to fake the outer appearance of a jnani, but it is impossible to fake the ananda (peace) or power that was experienced in his presence.

In the late 1990's I saw a website that listed all of the 'known' Jnani's and their so-called 'lineage'. It started with Ramana Maharshi who apparently transferred Self-realisation to H.W.L. Poonja, who in turn (if I remember correctly) tranferred it to 300+ others with lots more to follow. We all fell on the floor with laughter upon reading this ..... what is there to transfer and from whom to whom? If it can be transferred then it was not there in the first place, is not permanent and not worth the effort.

Unfortunately they have not gone away, Tiruvannamalai is plastered with posters advertising these people during the winter months.

God, Guru and Self are one and the same. True satsang is therefore association with the Self and that does not require anyone else.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 08:56:05 PM by Graham »

Om Hridayam

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 12:27:12 PM »
Extremely well written! Thank you.

Adam

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 06:41:41 AM »
Initially when i came across advaita vedanta, my search continued even after reading Ramana's works. In time, and also in comparing other teachers to Bhagavan, i was drawn back into his teaching. Most others simply do not compare. "Measure anyone who promotes themselves as a guru by the conduct of Bhagavan and you will not go wrong." This is the best advice i have heard in regards to finding a realized teacher.

Subramanian.R

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 09:36:08 AM »



Dear Adam,

Yes.  Sri Bhagavan is the yardstick for measurement of other teachers. I find most of them do not even come up to His waist.  A few months back, I came across an advertisement in news paper.
"Self Realization in two days.  Join immediately."  I could not help
laughing.  I am also sympathizing with the people who rush for
such courses.



Arunachala Siva.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2011, 12:27:49 AM »
That paper Ad was really funny Subramanian agru  :)

atmavichar100

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »
Quote
The corruption of Satsanga

Today Satsang Culture is a reflection of what people are . You get the Gurus that reflect your inner nature .
Quote
The real meaning of Satsang is 'association with the Wise', preferably the Self-realised Sages (Jnani's) who speak only of God and fully practice dharma (righteousness), though Sages who are not yet Self-realised, but live according to the rules of dharma are also considered to be Wise.

Today's Gurus are no doubt Good speakers but there is less Dharma in their own day to day life but then again it comes back to people i.e how many people live Dharmic life ? Gurus emerge only from those set of people .


Quote
Today the word 'satsang' is widely used to promote what can only be described as talking-shops (the opposite of satsang), where self-appointed gurus pontificate about subjects they know little or nothing about, manufacture their own poisoned theories, indulge in cheap psychology and pursue their vices. They also expect you to pay for all of this in every possible way.

You pay to listen to talks on silence  :)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Om Hridayam

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2014, 04:35:07 AM »
Association of the wise is highly recommended by almost every spiritual source I've read. The problem is here in the West where is it to be found?
I don't know how good an idea it is to attend just anything that calls itself "Satsang". And even beyond that I had thought of attending,say, a Greek Orthodox mass just to be silent and in the company of more spiritually minded people rather than worldly people, but that was unsuccessful on many levels. I live near Portland Oregon in the US and it has many MANY eastern spiritual groups to choose from, even relatively smaller groups (for here) like Meher Baba or Radha Soami, but there is no group for Ramana which strikes me as odd. Anyway, I would be curious as to any advice on "keeping the company of the wise" in the western world. It is very difficult.

latha

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2014, 07:34:49 AM »
Om Hridayamji,

I have been going to Chinmaya mission for a few years now with my family in Chicago. The mission teaches advaita and as part of the study group for adults we covered Upadesa saram by Bhagavan. The transformation has been phenomenal in us. Please check out this mission if possible. You will also get to meet other spiritual people and the satsang with the swamiji will be of great benefit.

Goodluck in your search.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Om Hridayam

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2014, 06:23:57 PM »
Thank you Latha, but I am in Portland Oregon, so a little far away for a drive to Chicago.  :)

MarkB

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 06:36:29 PM »
Nisargadatta addresses this in I AM THAT, the question and answer format is informative and speaks on many levels.  If I remember right, He says as long as the devotee is earnest, the devotee may find another guru which can be like a mile marker who points the way.  There are other examples also--devotees not earnest enough, moving from one guru to another, etc., to make one blanket statement for all seems to be foolhardy, although Reality is One, mankind is varied, along with the needs.       

latha

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2014, 07:54:12 PM »
Om Hridayamji,

There is a Chinmaya center in Portland and many other cities in the US. Most centers have similar formats with Bala vihar for children and study groups for adults. It is worth checking out if there is a center close to you :)

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Om Hridayam

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2014, 08:23:16 PM »
I just came back here to mention that I did discover there is one closer to me. I had recently done a massive google search looking for places close by for possible satsang, but the keywords I used were "satsang", "Hinduism", "Advaita" and so on. But once I used the exact term "Chinmaya mission" I found there was one (60 miles away, but definitely closer than Chicago!) ;-)
Anyway, thanks again.

James

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 08:20:40 AM »
The real meaning of Satsang is 'association with the Wise',.....

I've similar sentiments also Graham. I've at times wandered out to see "teachers".....the pain of it!
Some were blatantly feeding their egoic desires, others weren't aware that their ego continued to run the show. None radiated the perfection of Maharshi.

Darshan of the Supreme can be had by keeping the outward-rushing mind fixed within.
(verse 192, pg.93, GVK, Godman's compilation)
 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 08:23:59 AM by James »

ksksat27

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2015, 09:42:48 PM »
Dear James

I disagree with you.  Your wander will lead you to a realized jnani sooner or later.  Go ahead and take the pains to search a teacher .  Ask all whom you encounter .  Knock the doors. one door will open  for the dawn of light.

But keep one thing in mind and strike out as a rule of thumb before even visiting this particular group -- who charges money for satsang, who offers re-treat, who offers workshops (paid workshops) . And again who offers 'no practice', who offers instant enlightenment experience by way of advertisement.

But leaving aside the above, you have to search all other teachers. 

From my own experience, let me tell this,  realization is the result of grace of a teacher than anything else.

If your search did not yield a teacher in this life, it will give you enough punyas that will be continuing in the next life to meet your Guru.

I am talking about Guru in flesh and blood.

You can conduct this search even while keeping your self enquiry and faith in Bhagavan Ramana firm.  there is no conflict here.

Our Atma Guru, the Guru of all Gurus, Bhagavan Sri Ramana and Arunachala will definitely be the guiding inner light in this search. And the time spent in Maharish's ashram, in and around Arunachala will definitely be the equivalent of a living teacher even now.  So obviously another option is , to abandon the search and stick to Ramana alone . that will also definitely work but a bit more hard work is needed. Because the requisite power comes from formless Self which is Arunachala Ramana.




James

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Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2015, 08:29:03 AM »
hello ksksat27,

my post wasnt to imply one shouldnt go searching for a Guru if that is what one wishes to do.
also, note the quote at the bottom of that post.

regards