Author Topic: Beyond SAT ?  (Read 5770 times)

soham3

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Beyond SAT ?
« on: December 12, 2009, 08:58:35 PM »
Bhagawan advised us to attain SAT but Rigveda & Gita tell us to go beyond SAT &  ASAT so as to attain Gahanam Gabhiram / Para-Brahman. I find it hard to believe that Bhagawan was one step less.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Vladimir

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 01:05:47 PM »
Dear Soham3,
Nisargadatta explains this moment in 'Prior to Consciousness'. If I understand correctly, when one realizes SAT (in his terminology "I Amness") he will be automatically transmited to the state prior to beingness. In fact much of this book is devoted to the queston 'consciousness -- prior to consciousness'

matthias

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 12:56:17 PM »
beyond is a strange word anyway :P

nonduel

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 06:58:48 PM »
Namaste,

Sri Nisargadatta doesn't use the word consciousness in the same way Sri Ramana does. For Sri Nisargadatta, consciousness he uses for the consciousness that comes with the birth of the body. In other words it is the inherent consciousness in a body (like sweetness inherent aspect of sugar), which leaves with the body's death. Awareness he uses for the Absolute, the Self, Brahman. He also uses Parabrahman for the absolute and Brahman for Iswara.

Thus, beyond consciousness is Awareness, the Absolute.

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Vladimir

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 09:11:26 PM »
Quote
Bhagawan advised us to attain SAT but Rigveda & Gita tell us to go beyond SAT &  ASAT so as to attain Gahanam Gabhiram / Para-Brahman. I find it hard to believe that Bhagawan was one step less.

Dear Soham,

I found a couple exact quotes for you from "Prior":

"Q: If Atman is sat-chit-ananda (being-consciousness-bliss), what is Param­atman?
M: Sat-chit-ananda will, in due course, become the Paramatman. Sat-chit­ananda is "I Amness" and is itself a state of bliss, a state of love, but it is an experiential state, so long as consciousness is there, and consciousness is there so long as the body is available — it is a time-bound state. You must transcend the sat-chit-ananda state."


Really Nisargadatta tells one should "transcend the sat-chit-ananda" state. But in another dialog he says:

"Questioner: Is the witnessing done by That which is prior to consciousness, or does consciousness witness itself?
Maharaj: Cross that bridge when you come to it. Don't worry about the principle prior to consciousness, you just be the consciousness."


"Sat-chit-ananda will, in due course, become the Paramatman" -- that's all.




Vladimir

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 09:16:05 PM »
Quote
Beyond consciousness -- this is meaningless ...
coz consciousness is Fundamentally Required to recognize the presence of that something which is beyond Consciousness!

Exactly! Meaningless. Coz it is non-attention state:

Quote
"Q: But I cannot think of a state when I had not been.
M: That was the non-attention Parabrahman state. That attention "I Am" was not there.
Q: Do we come from the Parabrahman state and go back after beingness goes?
M: Coming down into this world from the Absolute is something like
the appearance of a dream. In a dream are you going somewhere? The
primary ignorance is the understanding that you are the body. To know
that you are the manifest is knowledge, and the knowledge merges into
no-knowledge, Parabrahman."
--------------------
M: ... When will I be pronounced dead? When the Atman has left the body, but I am not that Atman, where is my death there? I am not affected by cancer because whatever happens, whatever the experience, I surrender all those to the Atman. All the actions and fruits of the actions are sur­rendered to the Atman by the Parabrahman, the Absolute.
You can never have knowledge about your Self because Parabrahman cannot be witnessed. You know what you are not — what you are you can­not know.
---------------
Q: (another) I am afraid of losing my beingness, my existence.
M: Where is the question of worry? Even the Parabrahman does not know Itself. When we come to the conclusion that you are not, I am not, what is left is said to be Parabrahman, but what is Parabrahman? You can't describe it, so you are silent. I am also silent. Parabrahman cannot be compared with anything.

soham3

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 09:34:19 PM »
soham,
      Where does Gita say go beyond SAT / Consciousness ?
Love!
Silence

Sri Krishna  tells  Arjuna in one of the shlokas in Gita,

" Anaadimta   param  brahma  na sat  na  asat  uchyate ".
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 10:59:18 PM by soham3 »
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

amiatall

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 05:43:16 PM »
The message is the same with Ramana and Nisargadatta which can be summed up:
Lose identification with a body.
You are not the body.
Cut the knot of the I-BODY.
DO NOT identify with a body.
Lose body consciousness.
Destroy body consciousness.
See that you are without a body.
I-body is a false idea.


soham3

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 09:54:10 PM »
Nasadeeya suktam of Rigveda tells that Being ( Sat ) & Non-being ( Asat ) both have come from a higher Power. That means that the highest stage to be attained  is one step above that of Sri Ramana.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Subramanian.R

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 09:45:16 PM »
Attaining Consciousness.  - this is the process, which needs
discrimination and vairagy.

Being Consciousness, where there is no further need for
discrimination and vairagya, since there is only One without a second.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 10:35:05 AM »
Dear all,

I thought over this Sat-Asat business for a long time, last night.
Neither Rig Veda, nor BG nor Bhagavan could be incorrect.  Perhaps
what I conlcude is:-

In Rig Veda quote and BG quote, the words sat and asat mean
only good and evil and such pairs of opposites.  Both good and
evil should be conquered to remain at the "great good" or "beyond good." 

The Sat of Bhagavan Ramana means the Self like the famous
Br.Up. text:  From darkness to light, from death to immortality....

It is something like mind and suddha-mind, manas and suddha manas.  Manas is simply the thing which haunts us, the Suddha
Manas is one wherefrom the Self speaks and writes, eats and sleeps.

Arunachala Siva.

soham3

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 10:27:08 PM »
Gahanam Gabheeram of Rigveda & Parabrahman of Gita are translated as  Unconditioned Absolute. Sat is Being/Existence/Awareness. Asat is unreal/illusion/imaginary/non-existent.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

soham3

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 10:25:33 PM »
Scriptures say that the highest state is turiyateet. Some of the vedic rishis had attained it. This state is transcendent to  Witness-Awareness.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Subramanian.R

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Re: Beyond SAT ?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2009, 08:54:06 AM »
Scriptures say only 'beyond objective consciousness' which is
Awareness.

Arunachala Siva.