Author Topic: Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]  (Read 6076 times)

srkudai

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Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]
« on: December 09, 2009, 06:07:51 PM »
Quote
Verse 6: dharmadharmau sukam dhukkam manasani na the vibho
akarthosi , abhoktosi , muktevasi sarvada

Rightousness, unrightousness, Happiness & unhappiness; all these belong to the mind and not to you, oh King!
You are not the doer or the experiencer. You are Ever Liberated!

A Disciple goes to his Guru for Self Knowledge and the conversation is recorded as follows:
D: Sir, I want to get liberated.
G: You Are Ever Liberated.
D: How can you say that?
G: Why do you think otherwise? What binds you?
D: Today morning, I got angry.
G: Anger is of mind. You are not the mind.
D: Should I, therefore, not address the anger?
G: If you understand you are not the mind, will the anger arise?
D: What does that mean?
G: You tell me, how did you get angry?
D: My subordinate did not work properly.
G: So? Subordinate did not get angry -- suppose you had no thought of it! That is you did not know this.
    were you angry about it?
D: No.
G: So when a thought arose you were affected by that thought. Who "Took" that thought and built anger
    out of it?
D: I
G: Yes, Who is this "I" ?
D: Its Me. I got affected by the thought.
G: So what happened exactly? The thought came... and then what ?
D: I felt that could trouble my project.
G: Yes. So who is this "I" ?
D: The manager of the project.
G: That is a role in "mind", do you get this?
D: Not quite.
G: Ok, Are you the manager ?
D: Yes.
G: Suppose tomorrow you lose that post. Do you become non-existent?
D: No!
G: So that means you are not the manager.
D: What Am I then?
G: We will come to that. But then, you are not a manager... you are playing the role of a manager! Isnt it ?
D: Yes
G: Similarly you are playing the role of a father, a son etc.
D: Yes.
G: The roles you play are called Upadhis ... Adjuncts. You are not defined by them.
D: Ok.
G: So now, these roles are all mental. therefore they can get "Hit" by the thoughts.
D: Yes.
G: Suppose all these adjuncts are removed. What are you?
D: I am Udai
G: That is your name. You have a name, you are not the name.
D: I am a man.
G: That is your body. You have a male body. An Adjunct. Please see. The body is only dead matter. You are alive
     so clearly you cannot be the body.
D: Am I not the body?
G: Right. You have a body, you are not the body.
D: But when there is pain in the body I am hurt.
G: Suppose you had no thought of it. Suppose you were under anaesthetic influence. Would you still be hurt?
D: No.
G: So its the mind , right?
D: Yes.
G: so you are hit at the mental level !
D: Yes.
G: that is a role.
D: what role?
G: Inquire.  Who is trying to "Reject the pain"
D: what is reject pain?
G: Pain is a sensation. Who is trying to avoid it?
D: Me
G: That is something you are "Doing", a "Role" you are "playing". You can still be without trying to avoid.
D: how do i do that?
G: Pain sensation is there, dont do anything about it. neglect it. dont try to do anything about it!
D: Neglect? Is that practical ?
G: Yes. Sri Ramana Maharshi even got his hand operated.
D: Humm.
G: so, that is a role too.
D: Ok.
G: Lets come back to it. What are you sans all the adjuncts.
D: I dont know.
G: You cannot name it or describe it.
D: Yes.
G: Anything you do is "playing a role"
D: How?
G: Coz without doing it also you are.
D: Yes.
G: So that "Doer" is a role you have intentionally picked.
D: Yes.
G: That means, you are not the "doer" .
D: Humm.
G: Anything you "experience" is yet another role.
D: How?
G: remember the body pain example. The pain as sensation is there. Who "Owns" it?
D: Me.
G: The one who is trying to avoid it or "have more of it" is a role. You need not do either.
D: Yes.
G: So that non-doer is You!
D: Yes.
G: So you are not the doer / enjoyer.
D: Humm. Does that mean i should not act, do any work?
G: No. To recognize you are playing the role of manager and are not defined by manager ... that is you are not manager
    but are playing the role of manager... do you need to stop being the manager?
D: no.
G: but you need to recognize it as a role.
D: Yes.
G: So, Dharmam & Adharmam belong to the role. who is the doer.
D: Yes.
G: Similarly Sukham [happiness] and Dhukkam [unhappiness] belong to the role too.
D: Yes.
G: when they are of the role ... if you disidentify with the role ... you are done.
D:Humm.

This is the essence of this verse. Leave identification with the doer ... karta... and Enjoyer ... Bhokta... and Remain
as Consciousness.

The way to do it is ... Relax, Remain as Consciousness ... and when ever identification with doer is identified ...
inquire who is doing ... and relax into consciousness again!

Love!
Silence
 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 06:10:57 PM by srkudai »

nonduel

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2009, 07:17:32 PM »
Dear Skrudai,

 ;) :D ;D

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2009, 08:23:14 PM »
Udai ji

The way guru told. I also did all the work and asked myself who is doing, who is expecting good comments. But simply I got the answer.
It was me who was doing the work, and raised the question and at the end it was me who was asking the question. Yes I played so many
roles. The "I" was always with me. Still I am confused.



Ramanaduli

nonduel

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 10:40:52 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Can I ask what confuses you?

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 07:47:41 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

"Doubt the doubter"   Sri Ramana.

Aranuchala Siva
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

ramanaduli

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita - 13 [You are not the Doer / Experiencer]
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 04:03:23 PM »
It is one year and 3 months since I joined this forum. Daily I see the posts. The points which are new to me, I try to put it into my day to day life.
. It is clear to identify in between what is ego and what is the real "I". Previously without understanding all the activities were being done.
Now after understanding the same routine is going on. We cannot change the life style, or food habit etc. etc. When Ramana understood His life totally
changed. He could root out all the vasanas. He came to Thruvanamalai like Siva Himself. As Udai ji posted long time ago, watching the thoughts, giving suggestions to mind, and postponing the actions. hmmm. does not root out vasanas. It would take many ugams I feel.

Ramanaduli