Author Topic: Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization  (Read 2162 times)

Subramanian.R

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Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization
« on: November 16, 2009, 11:16:10 AM »
Once Varanasi Subbulakshmi Ammal, after reading Sri Bhakta
Vijayam, the stories of Maharashtra saints of ardent bhakti for
Lord Panduranga, (Krishna) asked Bhagavan Ramana:

"Bhagavan!  It is said that Namadev had dinner with Lord
Panduranga and also danced with him.  Are these stories too?" 

Bhagavan Ramana said:  "Why any doubt?  They are all true. Lord
came in human form, ate with him and danced with him.  But once
a devotee becomes absorbed in the Self, he stops thinking of God
being separate from himself.  But until he reaches that stage,
God has to grant the devotee's prayers, to coax him to stay on
the path of Self realization.  Upon Self realization, his individuality
is lost and he merges with the Supreme Being. 

(Source:  Arunachala's Ramana, Boundless Ocean of Grace, Volume 6, Sri Ramanasramam, Tiruvannmalai.) 

Arunachala Siva.

arcsekar

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Re: Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 03:36:21 PM »
Similarly, if only Bhagavan appears before me I would be too happy to dine and dance with him. As for Self Realisation let him keep it for himself. What's this business of losing identity. Bhagavan says that we lose individuality in sleep and hence  -don't be scared to lose individuality.As for Bhagavan, still he exists as he was in his lifetime on earth. Others, if attain Mukti-Liberation-can they retain their personality after shedding their mortal body.Mukti as  I understand is freedom from birth.O:K, Can I continue to atleast witness and enjoy the happenings of the world. I need information  about the status of a person after Mukthi, before aspiring for that goal.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 04:06:39 PM »
Dear arcsekar,

Okay.  There is no quarrel. But when Bhagavan Ramana appears
before you in all His transcendental brilliance, you will have no
request except to keep you merged at His feet.  The dual-observer
is no longer there.  In Periya Puranam, there are many devotees
for whom Siva appeared with his consort, Uma.  These guys were
happy with their lives, sufficient money, daily visits to Siva temple,
making garlands, bringing good water for his abulations, making
tasty food as his prasadam etc., etc.,  They were all along seeking
only Siva's darshan and not merger.  Devotees like Kannappa
and Muruga Nayanar, were not even knowing what is Sivapadam
or Siva Sauyjyam or Mukti.  There only desire was to see him,
in all his glory with his concorporate Unnamulai.  But when he
appeared, no such desire continued to arise, but only merger
at his golden feet was their desire.  Nevertheless, there were
a few who asked him to permit some time to continue their devotional duties.  Saint Poetess Avvaiyar was called by Sundaramurthy Nayanar, who was travelling in a white elephant
to Kailas, to come and join him.  Saint Poetess Avvaiyar said:
I am not in a hurry.  Let me finish my Pujas to Ganesa.  Eventually,
will God tolerate such delay?  Ganesa said:  Do not worry.  Finish
your Pujas. I shall deliver you safely and faster (like courier service
when compared to India Posts) to Kailas.  He lifted her up in his
trunk and placed him at Siva's feet in Kailas, even before Sundaramurthy could reach there in his white elephant! 

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 05:02:19 PM »
Dear srkudai,

Yes.  Seeing him is only being consumed by him.  Bhagavan
Ramana says the same in Sad Darsanam, Verses 20 and 21:

To see God and not the Self that sees is only to see a projection
of the mind. It is said that God is seen by him alone who sees
the Self.  But one who has lost the ego and seen the Self is
none other than God.  (Verse 20)   

When scriptures speak of 'seeing the Self' and 'seeing God',
what is the truth they mean?  How to see the Self? As the
Self is one without a second, it is impossible to see it. How
to see God?  To see Him is to be consumed by Him. (Verse 21)

But in the Subbalakshmi Ammal's case (the original post), Bhagavan
Ramana did not want to mention anything revolutionary.  He always
respected devotional stories like Bhakta Vijayam and Periya
Puranam.  So, He had to give her a reply that God appears in
human form to coax the devotees towards the path of Self realization.

The commentators of Periya Puranam say that the devotees
who wanted a darshan of Siva, in fact had it, but instantaneously
they merged in Siva.  I trust that Bhagavan Ramana would agree
on this point. 

It is something like Tsunami.  How can I watch Tsunami gushing
forth towards my house in 100 meters tall waves, smoking a cigaratte at the foot-steps of my village house?  To watch it,
is to be engulfed by it.  It is like an ant kissing the Hill of Fire.
How can an ant go near and kiss the Hill of Fire?  To go near
and see, is to be burnt by it.  Or it is like fire-fly try to measure
the heat of the lamp.

Arunachala Siva.

silentgreen

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Re: Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 06:40:17 PM »
Interesting discussion.

Sri Krishna says to His devotee Uddhava: "O Uddhava, Realize Me".
This was a face-to-face talk.
Therefore even though Uddhava was before Sri Krishna, having the darshan of His physical form, talking to Him, Sri Krishna tells Uddhava to realize Him internally, as the all pervading presence.
Hence seeing Sri Krishna face-to-face is not the same as realizing Sri Krishna.

When saints appear, there are always people who sees them face to face and have their darshan. This is not the same as Self-Realization. However even having darshan of the saints, being in their presence and following their instructions goes a long way towards Self realization. Sri Krishna gives guidance to Uddhava for realizing the Self. Uddhava follows it and realizes the Self... and the guidance becomes a guiding light for all humanity in the form of Uddhava Gita.

Many who have been in the presence of Bhagavan can testify that the presence of saints even for a short time is often more valuable than reading lot of books... no books can give the equivalence of that presence...

So the saints are not merely physical forms... but the magnet of Self too... they do magnetize.

If a person can really shed tears for God, he is already nearing God, and God will show him the way to Self Realization.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Subramanian.R

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Re: Eating and Dancing with God and Self Realization
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 09:59:07 AM »
In Uddhava Gita, it is said that Uddhava wanted to see Krishna,
as seen by Arjuna, in Viswarupa Darsanam, with thousand heads
and thousand eyes and thousand limbs.  Krishna smiled and told
him:  This is my Kalarupa.  Kalarupa, the form bound by time,
will be eaten away by Kala, Time, one day.  So please realize
my Atma Rupa, the formless Atma which is permanent.

Arunachala Siva.