Author Topic: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...  (Read 8561 times)

amiatall

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 08:39:24 PM »
The whole purpose for a human life is realization. Every step you made in your life is for that purpose only and there are no other purposes. Buy car? Have money? Be in joy? Be in sorrow? We are not talking about means to your understanding here. You don't go to Absolute when you die because still you have questions and desires so you go back here and start over again and again. The circle of births and deaths keep you entangled because of a mistake to identify with objects instead of your Self which is Awareness, Life itself, an expanse of consciousness, God. This life is an illusion as long as you exist and project over it falseness. Consciousness APPEARS as these worlds. That 'I', which thinks, had no true existence all along so why fear? If it had, please show me, bring it to me, where is he, when sought it is not. When you were 2years old child were you concerned all about this? You even hadn't body awareness at all. The ego within you which could sustain it's existence only by form started to build its own walls, now, when those walls are to be broken confusion arises about your identity, but you are:
1. not what others thinks of you
2. not what you HAVE
3. not what you achieve
4. not what you get
5. not your social status
This is all an illusion, concepts only. Let it fall. The key word in Life is 'let it go'. Why control and what control?
SELF IS it wants nothing. It has no illusions and you as SELF have no illusions and never had. The problem is that you know all of this we are speaking here but you want affirmation/confirmation/approval from outside and it is a delusion your mind makes it tries to affirm its existence through outer source. Is it not?

matthias

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2009, 09:00:28 PM »
Yes, but :

SELF wanted the dream and chose to be born into a dream, SELF knew it would be a struggle, SELF wanted this.


My point is not about leaving or coming, it is :

Self-enquiry removes the illusion so you realise you are the SELF once more, but the SELF wanted illusion.

the self wants nothing because it is everything...therefor your statement is correct, and you dont need realisation...noone does..

in fact all my little self wants is to survive this life without beeing killed, I dont care in wich way I die...because of my meditation or because of a car accident....both cases are not OK with me...but anyway someting makes me try to kill myself...

I even go to realized beeings asking them "sir would you please execute me"

I mean Iam nuts :)

so are you, Iam sorry to tell you this :D

rideforever

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2009, 09:33:15 PM »
The whole purpose for a human life is realization. Every step you made in your life is for that purpose only and there are no other purposes. Buy car? Have money? Be in joy? Be in sorrow? We are not talking about means to your understanding here. You don't go to Absolute when you die because still you have questions and desires so you go back here and start over again and again. The circle of births and deaths keep you entangled because of a mistake to identify with objects instead of your Self which is Awareness, Life itself, an expanse of consciousness, God. This life is an illusion as long as you exist and project over it falseness. Consciousness APPEARS as these worlds. That 'I', which thinks, had no true existence all along so why fear? If it had, please show me, bring it to me, where is he, when sought it is not. When you were 2years old child were you concerned all about this? You even hadn't body awareness at all. The ego within you which could sustain it's existence only by form started to build its own walls, now, when those walls are to be broken confusion arises about your identity, but you are:
1. not what others thinks of you
2. not what you HAVE
3. not what you achieve
4. not what you get
5. not your social status
This is all an illusion, concepts only. Let it fall. The key word in Life is 'let it go'. Why control and what control?
SELF IS it wants nothing. It has no illusions and you as SELF have no illusions and never had. The problem is that you know all of this we are speaking here but you want affirmation/confirmation/approval from outside and it is a delusion your mind makes it tries to affirm its existence through outer source. Is it not?


What is illusion ?  Is this not a distinction you are making between 2 realities - one you call real, one you call illusion - this is a distinction. 

But my point is not that, it is that the ABSOLUTE chose to be born here in this person.  Why should I leave now, it feels too easy?
* Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!  Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered,
* A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
* Ride now, ride for ruin and the world's ending                                       
* Death !!  Death !!  Death !!

rideforever

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2009, 09:38:27 PM »
The Rideforever is trying to defend himself against being killed.  And why not ?  He wants to live, even though his life is struggle. 

Image if all living being achieved self-realisation today and merged with the Absolute > the Universe would be very quiet and boring ?  What would be the point of the Universe then.

Then the Absolute would just create another game until the people in the game worked out how to stop it.  I think the Absolute has this problem a lot.  Because it is perfect there is nothing to do so it creates a game (existence/universe) in order to create something.

It keeps creating games and the people in it keep trying to stop the game.
* Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!  Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered,
* A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
* Ride now, ride for ruin and the world's ending                                       
* Death !!  Death !!  Death !!

amiatall

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2009, 10:25:40 PM »
So, what is your point? Let the game.
Ok we have then a problem of creation?
Of course there is a distinction because you create yourself one saying that Absolute did that and does this and will do that and that there are PEOPLE and ABSOLUTE as some different entities... So i make a distinction for you between illusion and reality.
Who creates what? Absolute IS it does nothing IT IS, everything IS, nothing IS too, between IS. IS [IS], NOT [IS].
Why you say that everyone merges somewhere? Absolute IS EVERYONE ALREADY. Now, as Reality is as it IS so we need not touch it, we need only to remove a veil. Self-realization is the realization that you were Self all along. It is nothing new to be gained. And nothing is lost. Dream is there but you recognize it is a dream only and don't suffer anymore.
Because of this body there is a shadow on the ground, as one knows himself to be the body - shadow makes no difference to him. Because of his greatness worlds appear in the presence of IT what is the problem? It knows itself only.
Now, as a baby who sucks his mothers milk is not aware of it, someone comes and says "hey he is making so much effort to feed.." - who says it? the baby? or the one who sees the baby?
People don't come and they don't say to you "i keep trying to stop the game" it is you who say so, find out who says so and be free. I say 'don't bother about anything just know yourself as you are' and you say 'why? Absolute plays his game and I want to live', is it not a big joke as you are LIFE itself?


nonduel

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2009, 11:03:16 PM »
Dear Rideforever,

There is ONLY the Absolute, One without a second. You are bringing forth in your discussion duality. Talking about the Absolute who does this and that, creates this and that game for people. This implies the Absolute AND others...duality.

The known cannot understand the Unknown. The limited cannot understand the limitless. You are trying to understand through the mind what is BEYOND the mind. This is because you believe that you are a body and separated from the Absolute.


The Rideforever is trying to defend himself against being killed.  And why not ?  He wants to live, even though his life is struggle. 

Image if all living being achieved self-realisation today and merged with the Absolute > the Universe would be very quiet and boring ?  What would be the point of the Universe then.

Then the Absolute would just create another game until the people in the game worked out how to stop it.  I think the Absolute has this problem a lot.  Because it is perfect there is nothing to do so it creates a game (existence/universe) in order to create something.

It keeps creating games and the people in it keep trying to stop the game.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2009, 09:34:29 AM »
Dear rideover,

If you want to llve a life thought it is with struggle, okay.  God
permits it.

There is no two realites.  There is only one - the Reality.  If the
little self sees the Self as illusion, it is the same rope (Reality)
appearing as snake.  Once the imagination that it is a snake
is over, then there is only Reality, the rope.  Advaita never
permits anything more than one.  Then, why the rope appears
to be a snake?  The Reality does not see the snake.  You are
only, in your little self seeing it as snake.  The Guru removes
the illusion.  The illusion comes due to three impurities, the
karma, the Maya and the ego.

If all the living beings become Self realized, (There are said to
be 8.4. million types of wombs.  The living beings should be
in billions), then the Brahman or the Self or God will be quite
happy.  The play is over.  Where then is the universe, you and
me?  Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2009, 09:49:51 AM »
Rideover wrote about despair, boredom, misery, hope etc.,  At
the end of it all, there is bliss.  Sorrow and boredom do not last
long.  They are constantly changing moods, therefore impermanent.
But the final goal of bliss is permanent, eternal, unchanging.

T.S. Eliot writes in Ash Wednesday:-

At the first turning of the second stair
I turned and saw below
The same shape twisted on the banister
Under the vapour in the fetid air,
Struggling with the devile of the stairs who wears
The deceitful face of hope and of despair.

At the second turning of the second stair,
I left them twisting, turning below;
There were no more faces and the stair was dark,
Damp, jagged, like an old man's mouth drivelling, beyond
   repair,
Or the toothed gullet of an aged shark.

At the first turning of the third stair
Was a slotted window bellied like a fig's fruit
And beyond the hawthorn blossom and a pasture scene
The broadbacked figure drest in blue and green
Enchanted the maytime with an antique flute
Blown hair is sweet, brown hair over the mouth blown,
Lilac and brown hair;
Distraction, music of the flute, stops and steps of the mind
  over the third stair.

Lord I am worthy,
Lord I am worthy!
but speak the word only.

Arunachala Siva.   
 

rideforever

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2009, 01:01:47 PM »
Then, why the rope appears
to be a snake?  The Reality does not see the snake.  You are
only, in your little self seeing it as snake.  The Guru removes
the illusion.  The illusion comes due to three impurities, the
karma, the Maya and the ego.

Hello

How can the Reality not see the snake ?  The Reality sees all, no ?

'impurities' ?  How can there be impurities ? 
How can impurities exist without the Reality wishing it ? 
If the Reality wishes it who am I to say destroy it, how can I know Its Plan ?

Aum
* Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!  Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered,
* A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
* Ride now, ride for ruin and the world's ending                                       
* Death !!  Death !!  Death !!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2009, 01:57:35 PM »
Reality CANNOT AND DOES NOT see anything.  There is nothing
other than That.  In fact, Reaiity creates living beings in Its own
Form, as his sports.  But the concorporate, inseparable (do not
again think, there are two Realities) part called Maya, occupies
the living beings in their minds.  Mind again is only thoughts.  Thoughts are there for all living beings.  This Mind only adds on impurities to itself and gets into all sorts of problems. Why did Reality or Maya give in the first place, the Mind?  The Mind is given to come back to its source viz., Reality.  It is the mind that moves,
does all sorts of mischiefs. If the mind is pure, Sattva Manas,
then the living being merges with Source swiftly.  If the mind
becomes Rajasic (aggression) or Tamasic (dullness), it creates
problems.

The three impurities, as per elders are:  Maya, Karma and Ego.
They are like shirt, coat and banian respectively.  When you
are sweating, you remove them one by one.  First the coat,
then the shirt and finally the banian.  Thus Ego is the last one
to go.  If ego is overcome, then you are ready to merge with
Siva or the Self.

In Tiruvannamalai, Arunachala is said to have lent half of his
body to Unnamulai.  This represents, Siva and Uma.  Uma cannot create any problem if one's mind becomes pure as crystal.  She
becomes the Suddha Maya (as in Sakta philosophy) and shows you the way to merge with Siva.

The three impurities have to be cleansed and that is why all
this living and dying and taking rebirth.  The cycle will be over
one day.  But one has to HURRY UP, has to do cleansing
process fast.  Otherwise, Siva will look into your carry bags
of good deeds and bad deeds (chocolates and garbage) and
place you to another birth.  This Russian roulette has to go on,
till all the garbage is thrown away and new garbages are not
accumulated in your hand bag.

Garbages confer you a rebirth, say, like being born in a Tasmanian
island as a woodcutter's 9th son.  Or, being born in a New York ghetto, (I think ghettos have been cleared now), and you smoke California Orange at the age of 14 and become a great rowdy of the area.  If some chocolates are there, you are born in Kasi or in
a New England county, or in Tiruvannamalai, or in Tel Aviv, for the parents who are good Christians or Hindus or Jews.  Then the
merger becomes somewhat easy.  Lineage helps your life to
pursue the path of devotion and self enquiry.

Arunachala Siva.           

S.Subramanian

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 10:14:50 PM »
Why the SELF wants this dream of universe? If the SELF has placed us here, why should we try to leave? Legitimate questions.  But can these be the basis of our enquiry?  How can we ascertain SELF’s intention unless we know IT or be IT?
Since we see and live in this world, we can begin our enquiry only with the world: what is the purpose of human life; what is the highest gain of reason; what is the basis of our existence and so on.
The question of creation was put to Maharshi also:
D.: What is the purpose of creation?
M.: It is to give rise to this question; investigate the answer to this
question, and finally abide in the supreme or rather the primal
source of all, including the Self. The investigation will resolve itself
into one of quest for the Self and cease only after the non-self is
sifted away and the Self realised in its purity and glory.
(From Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi)

soham3

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 11:49:27 PM »
Illusory worldly life has been chosen by Nature and not by Self. An individual starts one's career with vegetable kingdom and then passes through the stages of reptiles, animals and birds; and finally gets human birth. After many births in the species of homo sapiens, he yearns for Self-realization.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Subramanian.R

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Re: Some Questions About Self-Enquiry ...
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2009, 10:06:23 AM »
Yes. I agree with S. Subramanian and soham3.  "Why" can
never be our question. "For whom?" should be our question
and investigation.

Arunachala Siva.