Author Topic: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam  (Read 4166 times)

srkudai

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Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« on: November 07, 2009, 10:34:04 AM »
So here is yogavasishtam saying thoughtlessness is not really Samadhi!!

Quote

King Parigha asked king Suraghu as follows: "Are you established in the state of supreme pace in which no thoughts or notions arise in your mind which is known as samadhi?"

and Suraghu replied: Holy sir, please tell me why only the state of mind which is free from thoughts and notions is called samadhi? if one is a knower of truth whether he is engaged in constant action or in contemplation... there is only Samadhi.


Love!
Silence

matthias

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 12:59:15 PM »
gend√ľn rinpoche says it very simple....

if you think a thoughtless state is meditaiton then a table can meditate better then you do...


Subramanian.R

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 03:26:08 PM »
Dear matthias,

The ocean of difference is:

The table is proved only when a man says that there is a table.
Table does not say, I am, I am.

The man says, I am, I am.

There lies the difference between the insentient object
and a human being.

Arunachala Siva. 

arcsekar

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 04:21:09 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

You have hit the nail on its head. That's the point. That's the fundamental difference between sentinent and insentient. Sentient is not just human beings, but includes all living organism. I exist is the Sath aspect of Brahmam - this apspect of 'Existence" is common to a worm as well as to Iswara. So said Bhagavan

arcsekar

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 06:17:09 PM »
srkudai,
Everything is filled with Consciousness-no doubt.In insetinent/inert/ jada consciousness is dormant.In plants it is semi dormants.In animals and humans it is active. Consciousness, like any energy can be intensified /manifested . Humans should endevour to manifest this divine energy by work  or worship or yoga or jnana. When tables do spiritual practice, they will invite you and Mr. Mathias to chair the congregation.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 06:47:18 PM »
Dear arcsekar,

When the stone is carved into a Linga or Devi image, the image
does not get energy.  That is why, in olden temples, they used
to do what is called Prana-prathishta, or giving life energy, through
special mantras, and then the Siva Linga inside the sanctum
sanctorum gets the Power.  When the kings did construct the
temples, the well informed priests only did this prana prathishta.
They also do similar pujas on the temple tower's golden tops,
so that the power descends from Space too.

Arunachala Siva. 

arcsekar

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 11:35:54 AM »
srkudai,
My views were with reference to the insentient tables.Consciousness is changeless-no doubt. All arguements are with reference to the adjunct/media/upadhi reflecting or transmitting the consciousness. Bhagavan has also mentioned Thoughtless consciousness is our goal.
When there is noise in the assembly,one has to shout' Silence'to quieten the  gathering. Always quoting the absoulte Cosciousness will make the interactions in this forum a futile and meaningless exercise. When devotees pleaded to Bhagavan to clear their genuine doubts without invoking the Brahmasthra- who is the I asking this question, He gracefully condescended.

amiatall

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 03:51:25 PM »
How about these Ramanas' words: "Some power acts through the body of a Jivanmukta (realized being) and uses his body to get the work done."
Something deeper than ego takes over the body.
Realization is not only understanding but it takes place physically energetically and so on. There are some scientific researches where they actually see how brain RADICALLY changes after realization. Time concept disappears and so on.
This is better seen in the action, please try, when your total attention goes on Self in the process of action, truly, body starts working automatically, no thought arises and you become action itself, when needed mind uses its power to think what should be done next [according to this action] and that's all it subsides again. 'Be still' is very important statement it is same as "don't move, mind".
Now, in the beginning of practice there are a lot of thoughts because one is very addicted to thinking and when thinker stops, thoughts are still there because of inertia. With time even those thoughts subside and there is this Being only with clarity, sharpness and wakefulness. This is consciousness but even then there is something that watches this consciousness come and go... this beingness comes and goes.. i am and i am not.

matthias

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Re: Why is Thoughtlessness Samadhi? --- Yogavasishtam
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 08:12:02 PM »
dear all

the point I had was not aimed to cause a discussion about the differnece of sentient//insentient...

it is about the "misstake" to think that beeing without thoughts equals a good meditation (or even the goal of meditation)...

buddhist scriptures say, if you practice this sort of meditation and eventually becoma a master in beeing thoughtless, then you will be reborn in the formless realms...still a part of samsara

and to say it again:

if it would be true that a thougtless state is the aim of meditation then one should try to be a table....I do not understand why the greatest journey (the meditative journey) should have its goal in transforming the human mind into a table...

silence has nothing to do with thoughts...its ever present...sometimes we get attached to the natural display of thoughts....therefor we need meditation...

but if Iam present...naturally relaxed and present...thoughts cannot touch me...there is no problem in my meditation with thoughts or without thoughts...this is called beeing naturally present...it is naturally because noone does presence, no one practices this essential presence..so if we try to be present we loos it (its automatic)...best thing is to relax into the moment..body and mind....the rest will reveal itself...why is this so? because what arises is naturally perfect...its the mind that wants to alter and make it better or different...the "iamness" is never touched and always the same...in all states...allways..

it is trze that it is easier to realize the face of awereness in a thoughtless or empty state of mind...but once realized...we need nothing more then to "sustain" this presence.....thats all!
if we have problems with our thoughts (fear, aversion, aggresion etc.) we need a psychologist...if we want to meditate thoughts should not be a problem for us...I mean they should not bother us in their non-arising and they should not bother us is their arising...also the content should not bother us when they arise.

if we like the non-arising of thoughts more then we are attached, and attachment is one major cause of samsara..

hope this was not wrong :)
matthias
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 08:35:56 PM by matthias »