Author Topic: Death of mind does not mean thoughtlessness --- Papaji as explained by David  (Read 3034 times)


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David Godman's interview explains Papaji's statement  here ... the following is the conversation:

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Question: You have mentioned that final Self-realisation is when the mind actually
‘dies’ irreversibly in the Self. You have also mentioned how Papaji used to sometimes
give an account of his life based on memory of his earlier narration. The idea of
memories and a dead mind seem contradictory. Could you please clarify this?
David: Many people are puzzled by this apparent conundrum. A dead mind is one in
which there is no thinker of thoughts, no perceiver of perceptions, no rememberer of
memories. The thoughts, the perceptions and the memories can still be there, but there
is no one who believes, ‘I am remembering this incident,’ and so on. These thoughts
and memories can exist quite happily in the Self, but what is completely absent is the
idea that there is a person who experiences or owns them.
Papaji once gave a nice analogy: ‘You are sitting by the side of the road and cars
are speeding past you in both directions. These are like the thoughts, memories and
desires in your head. They are nothing to do with you, but you insist on attaching
yourself to them. You grab the bumper of a passing car and get dragged along by it until
you are forced to let go. This in itself is a stupid thing to do, but you don’t even learn
from your mistake. You then proceed to grab hold of the bumper of the next car that
comes your way. This is how you all live your lives: attaching yourself to things that are
none of your business and suffering unnecessarily as a result. Don’t attach yourself to a
single thought, perception or idea and you will be happy.’
In a dead mind the ‘traffic’ of mental activity may still be there, usually at a more
subdued level, but there is no one who can grab hold of the bumper of an idea or a
perception. This is the difference between a quiet mind and no mind at all. When the
mind is still and quiet, the person who might attach himself or herself to the bumper of a
new idea is still there, but when there is no mind at all, when the mind is dead, the idea
that there is a person who might identify with an object of thought has been
permanently eradicated. That is why it is called ‘dead mind’ or ‘destroyed mind’ in the
Ramana literature. It is a state in which the possibility of identification with thoughts or
ideas has definitively ended



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Dear srkudai,

I read Papaji's interviews as quoted by you also.  Some of the
points that I had given under Balsekar's also hold good here.
In a highway with speeding motor cars, if a Jnani just watches,]
without catching any of the vehicle's bumper, then he becomes
a Witness, the term used in Advaita literature.  Bhagavan
Ramana was such a Witness and He is just a Witness in the
Samadhi Hall in Tiruvananamalai.  If this Witness does some
work of Its own, then we should conclude that it is with Brahman-
mind or Pure-Mind, Suddha Manas or Sutta-Sattva state.  Then
there is no confusion at all.  Anyway Bhagavan Ramana does
not go and catch a speeding car, as most of us do.  He was
a Witness, of speeding cars and injured mortals like us.

Arunachala Siva.