Author Topic: Inadequate Sadhana  (Read 3907 times)

Subramanian.R

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Inadequate Sadhana
« on: October 15, 2009, 02:44:30 PM »
Most of the seekers, like me for example, feel that our sadhana
is inadequate.  Bhagavan Ramana when such anxieties were
expressed had said:  Do not worry.  Guru-krupa will take care
of it, provided you surrender completely.

Sri Sankara also says:  "My Guru has said to meditate 'I am
Sivoham' but I am not able to attain Sivam.  However, I am
totally believe in the words of my Guru and oneday I shall
attain Sivam".  This is exactly the message from Bhagavan
Ramana.

Conviction alone is necessary. 

Sri Sankara also says:  Atmanavindhate Jnanam, to strongly
believe that I am Atman is the Jnanam.

Muruganar used to say:  "Standing at the banks of Ganga,
will one dig a well for water?"  We are all like this.  We are
all on the banks of Ramana-Ganga and our job is only to
step into the waters and drink.  There is no need to dig a
well!

Arunachala Siva.   

arcsekar

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 03:17:11 PM »
Milton, the great poet  also felt that he was not serving god adequately and felt guilty.In the poem
titled On His Blindness, he ends up with a comforting note ""They also serve Him , who just stand and wait''.

God knows our limitations.Depending on our sincerity and devotion, he provides us opportunities and environment to progress further.As Ramakrishna Paramahamsa stated, if we take one step towards God, he takes ten steps towards us.

nonduel

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 04:25:01 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian,

Namaste,

Conviction!

The Vivekacudamani, the Crest jewel of discernment of Sankara speaks of conviction and to abide in that conviction through discernment. The Ribhu Gita, in the Song of Ribhu, is almost exclusively on discernment and "I Am Brahman". It is also what Sri Ramana said again and again in different ways. Baghavan has repeatedly said that all thoughts to the contrary are the major obstacles.

Sri Nisargadatta after his Guru said "You Are He" never doubted.

Thus the "battle" for us (if I may use the word) is in refusing, refuting, negating and most of all not to "stay" in the thoughts that there is something to do. That there is a purification that has to take place, that Brahman, Sri Ramana has to help us. That we need to pray, ask for Grace.

These are all of the mind and through them we are negating what we ARE. Bakti, I believe is when we completely surrender to the words of the Guru in complete trust.  

Reading "The song of Ribhu" daily is a great help for me in hammering down in the mind "I Am Brahman".

Quote from Skrudai:   Just leave the Result to God and you are free. That is amazingly simple, isnt it ?

Love!
Silence

 
My Love and Respect
 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 04:28:27 PM by nonduel »
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Chuck Cliff

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 05:42:37 PM »
My understanding is that Ramana stressed several times that devotion and self-examination are, so to speak, two sides of the same coin.

As for the feeling of "not-making-progress" Ramana also in various ways told that it wasn't the devotee's job, so to speak, to fret about progress.

Myself, in my experience, I've found a slight twist on this -- feeling "no progress" is a darn sight better than thinking the opposite, that one is making "great strides".  The latter is a sneaky thing that creeps in while you're not "paying attention".  In my case, I get it "brought" to my attention, gently, if possible, or more firmly if that's what it takes  :P
There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

nonduel

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 06:08:08 PM »
Dear Chuck Cliff,

Neither, because both are thoughts. There is no progress and no regression because you ARE what you are trying to attain.

What is "mind-boggling" is to accept that there is no-things to do. The mind cannot stand to look at itself, this is its nemesis. The striving is the obstacle. This is why surrender is so important.

There is NOTHING but the SELF

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 06:35:36 PM »
Dear arcsekar, nonduel and Chuck Cliff,

I am happy about the variety of responses.  There are several
imaginary obstacles, as you have rightly pointed out.  The two
most important of them are:  1) Atma Vichara is tough  2)  I
am not progressing much.  Both are ego's tricks.  Ego does not
want to give up very easily the hold.  It is a scorpionic bind.

But as arcsekar said that 'they also serve who stand and wait.'
The Biblical story, if I remember correct is that Peter is the guardian angel of Heavens.  He is always the gatekeeper.  One
day someone asked God:  This chap is always waiting at the door.  When is he going to come in and serve you?  God said:  They
also serve who stand and wait.

And 'Sadhana' is made easy by God.  God or Guru's krupa makes it an easy journey.  Two anecdotes, I remember here.  One is
again the Biblical quotation, "God tempers the cold wind for
the shorn lamb."  The other is famous Saint Poet Manikkavachagar's line from Tiruvachakam: "I am like a blind
cow.  But this blind cow will also reach the Master's yard, by simply iistening to the 'amma...' sound of the cow going in the front and following the direction of the sound!"  'Ko aavin
milaithal kettu pin chellum kuruttu aa pola..."   

We shall listen to the songs of Ribhu and Muruganar and reach the goal!

Thank you once again, nonduel, arcsekar, and Chuck Cliff.

Arunachala Siva.       

Chuck Cliff

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2009, 01:10:26 AM »
Dear Non-duel,
Quote
What is "mind-boggling" is to accept that there is no-things to do. The mind cannot stand to look at itself, this is its nemesis. The striving is the obstacle. This is why surrender is so important.
   Well, yes, I guess, but then, I figure the mind really likes to look at itself -- in its own mirror, that is ;D

What it really doesn't like is to see that its source, what sustains it in what might be called an "empirical" existence, is what most here refer to here as Self. On the other hand, in a certain mode, the mind will go gladly, like a child to its birthday party, which in a sense is what it is ("no one enters the kingdom of the spirit except as a little child" paraphrase of Mark 10:15 and ½ a dozen others).

As I see it, striving is an obstacle when the mind imagines that it is the doer of self-enquirery on the one hand or surrender on the other -- both of which, in order to get the medicine to go down, so to speak, have to be, uh, non-doing which if you will pardon the play words is the ego's un-doing :P.

There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 11:50:48 AM »
Dear Chuck Cliff, nonduel and srkudai,

The mind is a mirror.  It wants to see itself and not the Source.
This is, I think,  because the mirror is full of dirt.  The mirror
has to be cleaned up.  Then the mind sees the spotless mirror,
which is the Self the Source.  It is like seeing the growth of hair
on your cheeks in the mirror.  The mirror need not be shaven.  We have to shave our cheeks.  Then the mirror reflects the clean face.
This is precisely the Chidda suddhi of Hindu theology.  The
child is spotless and it can enter the Heavens easily.  Because
the child does not have the stub of hair on its cute little face!

Arunachala Siva. 

matthias

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 01:04:24 PM »
tenga rinpoche said in a teaching that when we feel that there is no progress it has to do with our heart and compassion....

we will not progress until we life our meditation in daily life, this means when we are keeping it for us, in our litte garden in the heart, nourishing our meditaiton and sadhana (maybe telling the neigbhours little things like: "I grow the most excellent fruits in the whole village", and the neighbours are wondering because no one ever saw this fruits...you see?)

so if we want to progress in sahdana we have to share it through our whole beeing with this world...if we keep it for ourselfs then things might happen like "a closed up throat, headache, sleeplessness etc." I think this has to do with our energy and how they are allowed to flow out...

and even if self and other, world and god are concepts as long we did not attain perfect enlightment we have work to do...and one major work is to love all beeings equally, this is the measurement of our sadhana...and not the bliss and clarity that we are all craving for, this could be the fuel for the love nothing more....

and I think the sadhana has two major wings, one is the contemplation of the essence, like dzogchen, zen, atma vichara etc. what ever one likes....this is one wing ..and second wing is to life in accordance with the dharma, and this is pointing to our relative lifes...

you see if I meditate but behave like mr. ordinaryman then why do I meditate?


much love
matthias

here is a teaching of a zenmaster regarding this topic, I like it very much because it shows this obstacle, and even zen masters struggle with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJOq_BM_zug&feature=related





matthias

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 07:15:06 PM »
indeed this si true, but what keeps us away from beeing that?

you said it "selfcenteredness"...

and love or compassion, cultivating these (or purifing the mind so that the qualities come to light) is the direct means to reduce selfcenteredness...in the relative world

when we rest as awereness we do not need to do something else, all good qualities are present..

but this is not always the case, so meditaiton and prayer is neccessary.

I was refering to this fact

if it would be that easy, why do sadhana? tat tvam asi...why we still talk?



Chuck Cliff

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2009, 12:37:03 AM »
Quote
The mind is a mirror....
   Ah, dear Subramaniam, can this mirror analogy hold water when looking closely at the teaching of strict non-dualism?  I thought at once of the of the teaching of Shen-hsiu:
Quote
This body is the Bodhi-tree.
The mind is like a mirror bright;
Take heed to always keep it clean
And let not dust collect upon it.
  which was countered (balanced?) by Hui-neng's:
Quote
There is no Bodhi-tree,
Nor stand of mirror bright.
Since all is void [Self],
Where can the dust alight?
  -- this is not meant to be argumentative but to point out that analogies (like that of the mirror) can only be carried so far before they break down. 
There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Inadequate Sadhana
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 10:46:44 AM »
Dear Chuck Cliff,

Yes.  You are correct.  You and Mirror are there only during the
journey.  When the Goal is reached, the path is forgotten. 
There is no Bodhi Tree.  There is only You, the One without
a second. Most of the examples in scriptures give us such
pictures only for sadhana.  Sri Ramakrishna used to say:
Your mother is giving you a pencil chit to fetch a bag of rice
and a few fish.  You carry the chit.  Once the buying is finished,
the pencil chit is no longer required.  You may even throw the
pencil chit.

T.S. Eliot has sung:

There will be time, there will be time,
When everything looks alike,
Hurry up please it is time, hurry up please it is time!

Arunachala Siva.