Author Topic: English translation of Tirukkuval in "The Path of Sri Ramana  (Read 1767 times)

Chuck Cliff

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English translation of Tirukkuval in "The Path of Sri Ramana
« on: September 27, 2009, 01:43:02 PM »
Reading "The Path of Sri Ramana", I noticed the quotes from Tirukkuval -- looking for more information and perhaps a complete text, I noted that the translations  given in "The Path" are more concise and, hopefully, more precise than the translations I have found searching on the internet.

The question is: were the citations in "The Path" translated for the English version or taken from another source?

Being - Aware - Love 
There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

Subramanian.R

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Re: English translation of Tirukkuval in "The Path of Sri Ramana
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2009, 07:08:05 PM »
Dear Chuck Cliff,

I looked into Tamil original books of Sri Sadhu Om.  These are
in 4 volumes unlike the English version.  As regards the English
version, I do not have the second volume.

Regarding Tirukuval, which literally means the Holy Cuckooing,
the nice sounds produced by koel (Cuckoo).  The imagery is
that the /lady-love, devotee sends the Cuckoo as the messenger to the Lover or Guru. Saint Manikkavachagar has also used this imagery, in Tiruvachakam, Koel Pathu, Decad on Cuckoo.

Now coming to the poem proper, I find in Tamil originals there
is no Tirukuval but there is one titled Kuyilodu Kooral, which means
Telling the Cuckoo, that is messaging through Koel, Cuckoo.

This poem has got 10 verses and this finds place in 3rd volume
in Tamil, which is full of Sri Sadhu Om's poems, not rendered in
full in English so far.

The first verse roughly translates as under:

"O Young Cuckoo, for my sake, go to the Master and tell him:
"I am withering  with exreme desire for his Grace.  O blemishless effulgence of Grace, O my eye, Sri Ramanesa, the rich medicine
of Hill, please come"  O Cuckoo, won't you cuckoo this to my
Master?"

If you could give me one sample translation from the English book, I shall be able to tell you further  It could be the same poem.

Sri Sadhu Om is a versatile Tamil poet, next only to Muruganar.  His third volume in Tamil which is full of poems is simply untranslatable.  We should request David Godman and Michael James and Robert Butler to help us!

Arunachala Siva.    .     

Chuck Cliff

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Re: English translation of Tirukkuval in "The Path of Sri Ramana
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2009, 10:39:17 PM »
Dear Subrimaniam,  I seem again to have wasted your time -- actually, it struck me while I was in the kitchen that I had not been sufficiently precise, but before I got back to the laptop you had already posted your lengthy reply :P  On top of everything else, I mis-spelled the title of the work ::), Tirukkural  (my only plea is that my eyes are old)

An example (I assume it is Michael James' translation)

 “The right way of punishing the wrong-doer is to
do good to him and to forget his wrong.”
‘Tirukkural’, verse 314

But still, thanks for the extra information.
There's a glory in the morning because the earth turns 'round, and a promise in the evening, when the sun goes down.

Subramanian.R

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Re: English translation of Tirukkuval in "The Path of Sri Ramana
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 11:40:34 AM »
Dear Chuck Cliff,

Yes. One letter can make a lot of difference.  It does not matter.
As for Tirukural, it is one of the oldest works in Tamil, written
sometime in 3rd Century AD, by the saint poet Tiruvalluvar.
It consists of 1300 couplets divided into 133 chapters of ten
couplets each.  It is a work of ethics, nothing is said about God
or liberation in detail.  No doubt it starts with 10 couplets on
Godhead but here again it is giving interpretations to presume
it is Siva, or Narayana etc., etc.,  This work is praised by all
Tamil scholars for its ethical value, regardless of whether they
believe in God or not.  Muruganar and Sri Sadhu Om have mastered
it.  Bhagavan Ramana used to quote some couplets occasionally.
A number of English translations are available, the oldest being
that of G.U.Pope, written in 1900 and he was a Jesuit Father working in Tirunelveli in Tamil Nadu for missionary work. He has
also translated Tiruvachakam and he used to keep a copy of
Tiruvachakam along with Bible in his bedside!

Arunachala Siva.