Author Topic: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta  (Read 5104 times)

nonduel

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Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« on: September 16, 2009, 12:06:12 AM »
Dear Subramanian and Srkudai,

Could you elaborate, share your thoughts, your understanding and sources (scriptures, books etc.) on Jivan-Mukta (Liberated while embodied) and the Videha-Mukta (Liberated after death).

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 11:07:37 AM »
Dear nonduel,

Jeevan Mukta is one who, while even in body, abides in the Self.
Bhagavan Ramana and earlier Sri Sankara are the examples for
this state of Jeevan Mukti.  Videha Mukta, is one, who while body
abides off and on in the Self and in this case, permanent abidance
happens only when he leaves the body.  I can tell two examples
for this.  These are Tamil Saiva Saints.  They are Saint Tirunavukkarasar and Chidambaram Ramalinga Swamigal.  In this
state, it is often said, that they merge in the Light that appears
outside and leaves no trace of the body.  Or on a appointed day,
they simply disappear!  Sometimes, it is said in Periya Puranam,
that Siva and Uma appear and take them with the body.

A Jeevan Mukta continues to live in the body and his life is like
a dream and the body leaves only months or years later as per
the wish of God.  It may be a natural death, with senility or
disease.

The authentic scripture which speaks about Jeevan and Videha
Mukti states along with the characteristics, is Viveka Choodamani
of Sri Sankara.

Arunachala Siva.

nonduel

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Re: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 06:36:40 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

Quote:  "Videha Mukta, is one, who while body abides off and on in the Self and in this case, permanent abidance happens only when he leaves the body."

Does Videha Mukta applies only to a Sadhaka who has experienced the Self, but isn't stabilized in the Self? 

For the majority of Ramana's devotees who haven't experienced the Self...?

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 06:51:44 PM »
Dear nonduel,

We are always the Self.  But we are not able to permanently
abide in It.  When one abides in Self, say temporarily, he
gets the glimpse or foretaste of the Self for that temporary
period.  It can be for even many days and many months, but
the mind is not extinct, and the mind jumps out.  Many seekers,
it is my experience too, abide in It for sometime.  But not permanently.  Once Devaraja Mudaliar was complaining to
Bhagavan Ramana, "I am not able to withdraw in It."  One
day, he sat very close to Bhagavan's sofa.  Suddenly, his mind
curled up into the Self.  He lost mind body consciousness.  He
was feeling extremely blissful.  A few minutes passed.  Suddenly
Bhagavan Ramana, who was looking hither then looking at the Hill,turned His face towards Mudaliar.  Devaraja Mudaliar asked Him with tearful eyes:  Bhagavan!  "Is It That?"  Bhagavan smiled and said: "Oye! That is It!"  Thus Bhagavan, out of abundant Grace, gave
him, a foretaste.  This is Guru Krupa.  It is the Power of the Presence.  When seekers found it difficult, the Guru lends a helping
hand, with his abundant grace.  Here only, the surrender, Saranagati, comes into play.

Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 11:36:27 AM »
Dear nonduel,

I thought last night that I should make the point more clear. 
Videha Mukta is possible for anyone, whether he had a foretaste
of the Self or not.  If the foretaste is got once, he becomes a
seeker with more interest and conviction.  We are all in this
category.

Leaving the body immediately on permanent abidance in the Self,
can be explained like this.

You are in a house.  You are seeking the Self, here it is a
Dinosaur!  Dinosaur comes in and shows its 10 metres trunk.
This is the foretaste!

Then, you further intensify the seeking.  The Dinosaur now
breaks in and comes into the house.  How can the house
bear this 50 metres Dinosaur with a 10 metres trunk?  The
house collapses!  This is Videha Mukti, the collapse of the body.

For some rare incarnations like Bhagavan Ramana and Sankara,
the house remains without much damage, for another 54 years
(Bhagavan), 26 years (Sankara) or 13 years (Tiru Jnana Sambandha).

My wife was asking me:  "How can you compare the Self with a
Dinosaur?"  I  answered:  "All such comparisons are possible
in Advaita.  When the Self can be compared to the rope, in the
famous rope-snake trick of Gaudapada and Sankara, why not I
bring in a Dinosaur?

Arunachala Siva.     

nonduel

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Re: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 08:08:55 PM »
My Dear Subramanian...


HA HA HA....maybe your comparison with dinosaur is because of your old age  ;D

I started to think about this from Arthur Osborne's writing and wasn't sure of Sri Ramana's words on this.

Rambling thoughts like the following: The sadhaka and the vasanas at death, the one who had an experience with the Self, and the one who hasn't, the one who had initiation with Sri Ramana (Darshan in his Presence), one who became a disciple through the teachings in books...etc.

Of course we ARE the Self always.

Yes why not a dinosaur  ;)

Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Jivan-Mukta & Videha-Mukta
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 12:07:13 PM »
Dear non-duel,

I am 49 years old, very young compared to a Dinosaur!

Regarding more details of Jeevan Mukta, Videha Mukta,
and various types of Samadhis, viz., Nirvikalpa Samadhi,
Savikalpa Samadhi and Sahaja Samadhi, you can refer to
Ribhu Gita (The Song of Ribhu, there is a beautiful translation
in English), Viveka Chodamani and Advaita Deepa Bodhika.

Arunachala Siva.