Author Topic: Guru Gita - 10  (Read 5423 times)

Subramanian.R

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Guru Gita - 10
« on: July 16, 2009, 01:49:02 PM »
gurunam sadasadva'pi yaduktam tannalanghayet
kurvannjnam diva-ratrau dasavannisad-gurau

                                                      - Verse 141

One should never ignore the orders of the Guru be it just
or [appear] unjust.  Carrying out his behests, one should
live, day and night like a servant, with the Guru.

{Vaikunta Vasan was the attendant for Bhagavan Ramana
in the late 1940s.  He used to sleep inside the Hall even at
nights.  Whenver Bhagavan woke up for nature's call at night,
he used to wake up and follow him.  Sometimes, Bhagavan
Himself went without disturbing Vaikunta Vasan.  Bhagavan
used to hold the torch light towards His belly, so that the light
would not disturb and wake up Vaikunta Vasan!  Once Vaikunta
Vasan went with Him and in the Hill, he was standing a little away
from where Bhagavan Ramana went for nature's call.  Suddenly,
Vaikunta Vasan heard the sounds of wooden sandals!  He became
afraid.  'Who is coming here?  Who is wearing sandals and coming
on the Hill?'  A few minutes later, Bhagavan came and asked him:
"Oh, you have also heard it.  The Siddhas were walking!"
"They also serve who stand and wait!"]

padukasana-sayyadi guruna yadabhisthitam
namaskurvita tat-sarvam padabhyam naspriset-kvachit

                                                                       -  Verse 143

Shoes, sandals, seats, beds, etc., used by the Guru should never
be touched by one's feet.  On the other hand, he should prostrate
to these articles also being sacred.

[The question of shoes or sandals never occurred in Bhagavan
Ramana's case, since He never wore them in His life time! 
Bhagavan never used give His koupinam or the towel to attendants.  for washing.  In the later years, perhaps they were washed by the attendants.  The bed linens were changed by the attendants when He was away to the Hill, once in a while.  Once devotees used to eat on the plate leaf, left by Bhagavan, along with left overs.  This was
called Ucchishtam.  Bhagavan on knowing this, took away the leaf Himself and continued the practice thereafter.  Similarly He also came out to the outer-yard to wash His hands, since the water used by Him was taken as medicine by devotees!   No doubt, such practises were there in the ancient days.  Bhagavan Ramana put a stop to all these.  Muruganar has composed a verse, on this Ucchishtam business, called
Ucchishta Vaibhavam.  The meaning goes somewhat like this:

"Oh, this Brahma who is a brahmin, knowledgeable in four Vedas,
does not know even how to confer a birth to me!  Why did he not
give me a dog's birth, so that I could eat Bhagavan's left-
overs.  What is the use of this brahmin's birth which cannot even
touch Bhagavan's left overs?  ]

Arunachala Siva.

 

saraskrishna

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 06:01:28 PM »
Dear Subramanian, I read the message and at a point Bagvan was saying that Siddhars were walking aside... who are siddhars actually? i have read that there are 18 siddhars still living in astral form, but why only 18? there are many self-realized people like Ramakrishna Paramahamsar, Sivananda Paramahamsar, Sri Ramana Maharishi, Sri Ramalinga Adigalar (vallalar), Pattinathar,  etc. etc , how are they different from siddhars? everyone had their own style of teaching consequently leading to the same destination.  If one is self-realized or if one has won the mind, can he be a siddhar? please help.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 08:34:13 PM »
Dear saraskrishna,

Siddhas are those who follow Sivaraja Yoga and after realization
want to continue in invisible physical bodies or in the form of a
flame etc.,  There are innumerable Siddhas.  We know 18 of them
in Tamil, because they have sung some songs giving subtle meanings,
and goals.  There is another group called Suddhas.  They do not
continue in astral form but die in their bodies and remain as un-
seen Presence, helping Sadhaks.  Sri Ramakrishna and Bhagavan
Ramana are Suddhas.  Their Samadhis or places where they had
lived continue to emit grace by their sheer unseen Presence.

These Suddhas do not necessarily leave bodies.  Some of them
disappear as Flame without leaving the body, like Tiru Jnana
Sambandhar and Manikkavachagar.  Saint Ramalinga Swamigal
left no trace, no body, no flame, nothing.  But the hall where he
had stayed last emit grace.  Some leave as a heap of Vibhuti
like Virupaksha Deva, whose Cave you are going to visit and where
Bhagavan Ramana stayed for 17 years!  Usually a Sivalinga or a
Tulsi plant is installed at the places where their bodies had been
interred. eg. Bhagavan Ramana, and Mother Azhagamma.   These places are the Power of the Presence!

Arunachala Siva.     

saraskrishna

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 09:31:39 PM »
Thank you Subramanian, I'm grateful to you.
After one is able to shutdown mind and still be with conscious, is that when the kundalini starts raising? if not what is that?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2009, 11:06:35 AM »
Dear saraskrishna,

Kundalini is another pond of fish!  Here, it is the Mind, Maya, who
is at the beginning in Mooladara, that is below navel, rises as you
progress in Raja Yoga.  This Maya comes to Svadhishtana, Manipuraka, Anahata, Visuddhi, Ajna and other spiritual centres
in the body through the spinal cord and reaches the skull and
merges with Siva in Sahasrara.  Here Maya becomes the Mahamaya.
Siva and Uma or Brahman and mind.  This is as per Yoga sastra.
Bhagavan Ramana says that Siva/Sakti comes down from skull
and remains in Heart, [mind you, this is not Anahata chakra], on
the right of the midchest. So for yogis the mind is still there till
its merger with the Brahman.  The mind merging with Brahman
is self realization.  The path of upper movement of mind from
Mooladara to Sahasrara is the Kundalini.  This Maya's journey
to become Mahamaya! 

Bhagavan Ramana says:  If mind subsides, everything subsides, if mind rises, everything rises, if you remain still, you can be anywhere.  [Who am I?]

Arunachala Siva.   

saraskrishna

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 04:06:49 PM »
Dear Subramanian, as we practice in detaching ourself from this illusionary image of world as what is seen, at some stage mind is lost and only consciousness exist. But, to remain in that consciousness alone seems to be very difficult and i feel only repetetive practice can solve this.  However, when we are in this conscious stage, will we feel the rising of kundalini? or, is it something like as the mind is lost there is no need for that all?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 04:34:30 PM »
Dear saraskrishna,

Kundalini has nothing to do with your experience.  The occasional
glimpse when the mind is in temporary animation, is the glimpse
of the Self like a lightning.  It may last a few seconds, a few minutes,
a few hours or even a few days, depending on your practice.  Do
not be bother about its coming and going.  Continue your self
enquiry without any attachment towards results.  Eventually, it
will stay permanently like the effulgence, brighter than 1000 suns!
Thereafter, your life, sustenance, decay and death are left to the
prarabdha.

Arunachala Siva.

saraskrishna

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2009, 07:17:32 PM »
Dear Subramanian, can you please tell me the meaning of the word prarabdha.  I think it is a sanskrit word and as I'm new to this forum I am not familiar.

saraskrishna

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 07:26:46 PM »
Thanks Udai and Subramanian. I now understand that the self is the most supreme of everything else and that is within. Self will just witness the different states of mind and it's kundalini levels. As I read the messages and teachings, I see that only Self is real and everything else is just virtual. so, does it mean that kundalini is also an illusion of mind? Please help.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 08:33:54 PM »
Dear saraskrishna,

Prarabdha is the allocation of happiness and misery for the current
birth.  All of us have to experience them.  One can attain Jnana
and conquer the future allocation of such miserey and happiness,
by realizing the Self, because there is no future births for a Jnani.
The remaining balance of happiness and suffering [which have
to be met with in future births] also gets cancelled.  But the present
allocation has to be suffered.  But Bhagavan Ramana says that even
the present allocation does not 'affect' a Jnani even though it is there,
since he has no body-mind consciousness!  It is like all the three
wives becoming widows when their common husband dies!  When
Dasarata died, one cannot say that Kausalya alone remained a
sumangali and not a widow!

But, then why this dangerous terminal cancer for Bhagavan?
There are different theories.  About which later.....

Akami  -  Total balance of merits and demerits.

Prarabdha -  The current allocation.

Sanchaya - Future allocations.

Your present birth's merits and demerits add up to the score
of total balance of allocation!

Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2009, 12:06:09 PM »
There are several presumptive theories about Bhagavan Ramana's
-- terminal cancer.

The Upanishads say that the prarabdha is like an arrow, shot out
from the bow.  It is already travelling.  It does not know whether
the object is a cow or a deer or a man.  It hits and causes damage.
But Jnanis like Bhagavan went through the illness, without body
consciousness, or a limited body consciousness.  He has told
attendants who asked Him whether it is paining:  Yes the body
is paining!  He saw the body as if it is in outside object!

The other theories are:

1. He took the karmas of His mother to speed up her liberation!

2.  He took the karmas of various devotees in cumulative form.
Starting from the minor toothache of Devaraja Mudaliar, to the
distressing myopia of Lakshamana Sarma, to the lameness of the
old man on the Hill [He made him to walk without his crutches],
to the blindness of a boy [his name was also Ramana], to the
labour pains of some lady devotees etc., etc., etc.,

3.  Bhagavan took up an illness which should be incurable, otherwise the devotees would get some medicines and keep on curing Him, and He had to live 3000 years like Tiru Moolar!   There must be a culmination for His life in body.   

None of the above theories can be proved.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 03:07:42 PM »
Dear srkudai,

You are correct and I thank you.  Akami and Sanchita have been
interchanged by me, by mistake.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Guru Gita - 10
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 06:18:15 PM »
Dear srkudai,

Yes.  Guru Gita speaks of the methods of worship, service,
gratitude etc., of the disciples, who are yet to realize the Self
but are only the process of still seeking.  At the seeker's level,
these qualifications become necessary.  But Bhagavan Ramana
has said that there is no Guru or disciple.  All are Jnanis.  It is
only Ajnanis who think that they are Ajnanis.  Bhagavan Ramana
said only:  BE.  Not even Be still or Be silent.  For example, Bhagavan Ramana wrote all the poems of Sri Arunachala Stuti Panchakam,
only from the seeker's point of view.  His real teachings start
from Upadesa Saram.  But the Panchakam poems are also important
because we are all seekers.  I remember only Maurice Frydaman's
story in this context.

Arunachala Siva.