Author Topic: Darshan of the Frozen Fire - 5  (Read 1353 times)


  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47994
    • View Profile
Darshan of the Frozen Fire - 5
« on: July 04, 2009, 01:15:06 PM »
The 3rd July 2009, was the Cow Lakshmi Day.  On this day,
in the year, 1948, the Cow got liberated in Bhagavan's hands.
3rd July, was her 61st Videha Kaivalya day.  There were
simple pujas between 10 am and 10.30.  Earlier, the stone
image had been nicely decorated with flowers, turmeric
paste, green saris and red silk neck scarf and bells.  Sugar
pongal and boiled bengal gram/desiccated coconut mixture
was distributed to all as Prasad.

Between 10.30 am and 11.30 am, Nochur Venkatraman was
talking to a small group in low voice.  There were about 15
men and women, including me and my wife. 

I asked him:  "Bhagavan has written mano-nasam in Who am I?  But in several other places, He has used the words, control
the thoughts, ignore the thoughts, withdraw your mind, turning back into the source etc.,  What do you think about this variations?"   Nochur replied:  'Mano-nasam is the thing. Several phrases had been used by Bhagavan, depending upon the questioner's level of understanding.  All mean only mano nasam. There is no point in trying to find what is the correct word or
phrase.  But one can read all the contextual uses and see who is the questioner etc., "   

I pursued:  "The mano-nasam means killing of the mind.  But
how can one stay at the state of mano-nasam? Manikkavachagar has used suddha manas etc.,"

Nochur answered:  "Yes.  Suddha manas is only a paribhasha,
a secret phrase, to denote mano-nasam.  Because people are
afraid about the doctrine of dead mind, one has to use some other phrases.  Then the question arises, how a dead mind can
write Upadesa Saram or Vivekachoodamani.  I {Nochur} feel
that the Jyoti in Chidakasam, the Efflugence in the Heart Centre,
also does the mind's work.  Can It not do the mind's work,
since It is the only thing without anything else, all powerful
and potent and eternal?"

I then asked Nochur Venkatraman:  "We are reading about different emotions of Bhagavan, a Brahma Jnani, at different
points of time.  In fact, different reactions for the same type
of events in life.  When Subbaramiah's wife had passed away,
Bhagavan said, 'Why are you feeling bad, where can she go away, is she not within you?'  When earlier, Echammal came
crying about her foster daughter's death, Bhagavan Ramana
reacted in an altogether different way.  He cried uncontrollably
along with Echammal.  During reading of the life stories of Saiva
Saints, like Tiru Jnana Sambandhar and Manikkavachagar, He had shed tears and stopped reading further, on more than one

Nochur Venkataraman said:  "Yes. One incompable thing
about Bhagavan is that He took people as they were.  He did
not fix any presumptive qualifications for anyone.  "Bring yourself, I shall remove the shackles of your mind" was His
approach.  He reacted as it was required like that before
Subbramaiah, as it was required like that before Echamma
earlier, as it was required like that when He was reading about
Manikkavachagar's song:

Piditha Pathu -  Decad on Holding Firm.

"Ooninai urukki, uLLoLi perukki....  You melted my bones,
and brought about Light with in me...And then pouring
the Honey of Ananda, which can never totally satiate one....." 

"And that is Bhagavan.  He took people as they are.  We are all
talking about chitta-shuddhi etc.,  Bhagavan never placed such
pre-emptions.  Chitta shuddhi will come hand in hand with
vichara or purna saranagati....  I shall tell you some shocking
as well as amusing stories...."

Arunachala Siva.