Author Topic: Brutal lies  (Read 5995 times)

mark

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Brutal lies
« on: August 07, 2007, 08:34:45 AM »
I came upon this article written by some gentle soul named Nilaram. I quote him here:
. . . "One very obvious thing about desire that gets overlooked is that every desire is a lie. Every desire is based on the idea that things can be different than they are, and that’s just never been true. Things have never been different than they are in that moment."
He speaks then about whatever desire is present is to realize a lie is being believed. To be a lie is to be present to it and embrace that truth.
Goodness ya gotta love the brutality of that, yeah?
Mark

naren

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 07:54:08 PM »
EVERY PATH TOWARDS SELF ENLIGHTMENT YOU WISH TO FOLLOW MUST BEGIN WITH A DESIRE. SO WHERE IS THE LIE

mark

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 12:13:29 AM »
where isn't there a lie?
there is no path, there is no beginning, there is nothing or nobody to follow.
Mark

naren

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 08:56:35 PM »
Every desire is based on the idea that things can be different than they are, and that’s just never been true. Things have never been different than they are in that moment."
What about illusion? The western world beleived say about 400 years ago that the earth was the centre of creation, that the sun revolved around it, that the earth was flat. When we look into distant galaxies, what we see " in that moment" is already in the distant past. As to their being no beginning, your mail itself will start a chain reaction.

mark

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Re: brutal truths
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 05:11:13 AM »
Yeah I would agree.   
Any belief can change so they are pretty worthless in the long run.
Mind can't come along for this ride. but what a relief, yeah?
Mark


mick hutchinson

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2008, 05:45:28 AM »
Isn't desire just a mental mechanism to get you to act ?
Doesn't it just say you will have this nice feeling if you perform this act ?
Or you will have this bad feeling if you dont ?
Isn't it true to say that  without desire no one would do anything at all !! We only BREATHE because we have a desire to !!
There is even a desire to THINK , it seems to me !!!

mark

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 09:51:36 AM »
it has been said that at some point Ramana had no interest in eating,
so his disciples fed him.
awareness is the realization of the truth that
desire is needed if you are going to be somebody
but nonetheless they are still lies, no matter how much they are believed
Mark












Subramanian.R

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 12:28:39 PM »
'Mental mechanism', ' desiring', 'feeling' 'acting' are all the
products of mind.  But, 'breathing' and 'thinking' are NOT
the products of the mind, but organic branches of the mind.
I believe Upadesa Undhiyar (Sansk. Upadesa Saram) says
this. But one offshoot subject:-  when desire is fulfilled,
the mind returns to Atma-suka and when hated objects suffer,
again the mind returns to Atma-Suka

Subramanian.R

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2008, 04:06:43 PM »
In 'Who am I?', Bhagavan says:  "Desirelessness is wisdom.  The two
are different.  They are the same.  Desirelessness is refraining from
turning the mind towards any object.  Wisdom means the appearance
of no object.  In other words, not seeking what is other than the Self
is detachment or desirelessness.  Not leaving the Self is wisdom."
By the words, "not seeking what is other than the Self",  Bhagavan
implies "seeking only the Self.".    But " seeking the Self " is not a desire, but shedding of the undesirables. But for this process, one should
have some essential desires.  Bhagavan did not eat for more than
20 days in Patala Lingam Cave.  He, while in His body, was wearing
only a cod-piece.  He never wore sandals in His life.  But, He did not
disapprove food, clothes and sandals for the seekers.  Even these
desires might go, when you "Be the self' because desirelessness is
wisdom.  When once one knows the Truth, every other thing is a lie.
Till such time, there will be lies, brutal lies et al.  Arunachala Siva.     

mick hutchinson

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 06:50:28 PM »
'Mental mechanism', ' desiring', 'feeling' 'acting' are all the
products of mind.  But, 'breathing' and 'thinking' are NOT
the products of the mind, but organic branches of the mind.
I believe Upadesa Undhiyar (Sansk. Upadesa Saram) says
this. But one offshoot subject:-  when desire is fulfilled,
the mind returns to Atma-suka and when hated objects suffer,
again the mind returns to Atma-Suka
Subramanian.R
It's so easy to get lost in semantics with discusions like this .The same verbal statement can often be taken to mean the oposite of what is intended .Ramana said that the world IS the mind . He said that the mind is only thoughts and he said that the source of the mind and the breath are the same .
It seems to me that the whole of all that we experience is the mind. Like all the aparrent qualities of percieved objects ,like nice nasty ,pleasant ,horrible are the mind . I believe that the quality of experience is the filtered Astral aspect of the Self. Like Sat ,Chit ,Ananda.
I reckon that it's a mental mechanism that splits consciousness/I of from Ananda/Bliss and creates  duality and all the experience of the world .
Anything which has a predictable outcome or an observable way of working could be called a mechanism . So the mind must be a mechanism .
Mouni Sadhu has written some stuff about cliches ,ergregors ,archetypes etc ,Which one might consider to be the labeling of the mind's functions.
However I do Know that Ramana said that one should cast off the minds functions rather than analise them.
Desire is definately a mechanism that works in a specific way .It keeps popping up and suggesting things doen't it [ LOL !!!]
Peace
M H

Subramanian.R

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Re: Brutal lies
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2008, 10:57:23 AM »
I think semantics have sprouted in my case, only after I
started posting in the Forum.  Earlier I was reading only
Bhagavan Ramana.  These writings were not there.  In fact,
everytime I write something, I used to ask Bhagavan, "Is it
not my ego's mischief?"  Only thing I want to clarify is that
the breathing is essential whether one says that is is the act
of the mind or not.  While eating, clothing or sleeping can be
posponed or avoided, breathing cannot be postponed or
avoided.  Bhagavan says in Who am I? : "In sleep, breathing
takes place due to God's will, so that the onlookers may not
doubt that the man is dead."   Arunachala Siva.