Author Topic: Five Questions on Who am I?  (Read 4767 times)

Subramanian.R

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Five Questions on Who am I?
« on: June 09, 2009, 12:24:16 PM »
On the same day, 3rd Jan 1946, one Mr. Joshi put five
questions on Who am I? to Bhagavan Ramana.  [The Q & A
will be of great interest to all of us.]

Question 1:  In the enquiry, Who am I?, what is "I" --
the Self or the Ego?

Bhagavan:  In the enquiry "Who am I?", 'I' is the ego.
The question really means 'What is the Source or origin
of this ego?  [ The Self has no need to ask Itself Who am I?]

Question 2:  I cannot always be engaged in this enquiry,
for I have got other work to do, and when I do such work I
forget this Quest.

Bhagavan:  When yhou do other work, do you cease to exist?
You always exist, do you not?

Question 3:  Without the sense of doership, -- the sense
"I am doing"  -- work cannot be done!

Bhagavan:  It can be done. Work without attachment. Work
will go even better than when you worked with the sense
that you were the doer.

Question 4:  I do not understand what work I should do and
what not?

Bhagavan:  Do not bother.  What is destined as work to be
done by you in this life will be done by you, whether you
like it or not.

Question 5:  Why should I try to realize?  I will emerge
from this state, as I wake up from a dream.  We do not make
an attempt to get out of a dream duirng sleep.

Bhagavan:  In a dream, you have no inkling that it is a dream
and so you don't have the duty of trying to get out of it by
your effort. But in this life, you have some intuition, by
your sleep experience, by reading and hearing that this life
is like a dream and hence the duty is cast on you to make
an effort, and get out of it.  However, who wants you to
realize the Self, if you don't want it?  If you prefer to be
in the dream, stay as you are.

(Source: Day by Day, Devaraja Mudaliar.)

Arunachala Siva.     


mmohan

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 07:52:22 PM »
With regard to Bhagavan's response to the last question, in fact if we get terrified in the dream we automatically wake up sweating profusely. In real life we need not wait for something terrible to happen in order to turn to God. We can do that while we are better off and that is what all the saints are telling us. Don't wait for the crisis. 

amiatall

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 08:36:02 PM »
Is doing without thinking "i am doing this" is detachment?
And how to understand "i am not doing this". As far as doing concerned, nobody can think and do at the same time, you jump or you think you going to jump. it is two things, so noone actually does anything on mind level when the action is present.
Please elaborate on that.

mmohan

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 09:02:16 AM »
The physical body has no problem nor does the Self, it is this factor called mind in between the two that causes all identification and ownership feeling and confusion. In fact we can work most effectively in the world without anything affecting or influencing us only when we have a pure or transparent mind that can reflect the full glory of the self.  A mind without past judgements and an agenda of its own, a mind that is not tainted by accumulated vasanas. Then the mind and body become just obedient instruments for us to utilize in our day-to-day activities as we continue to abide in the self and bliss.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 10:41:15 AM »
Dear amiatall,

I am not able to readily find an example.  However this is
a far-fetched example.  ARE YOU DIGESTING FOOD, THINKING
THAT YOU ARE DIGESTING? or  ARE YOU SLEEPING, THINKING
THAT YOU ARE SLEEPING?  When we can digest food or sleep,
Jnanis like Bhagavan Ramana can do work also in the wakeful
state without thinking.  But Annamalai Swami says that there
is a miniscule thinking while doing work.

Annamalai Swami quotes:  You decide to go to market.
You go out of the house and take steps to the market.
You are thinking that you have to go to the market and
you are taking every step, without thinking.  But there
is a trice of thinking in every step that you make.

I do not know whether these examples support your view
or oppose your view. 

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 11:45:52 AM »
Dear amiatall,

When you watch movies, some real movie fully packed with all kinds of emotions, passion, anger, revenge, crying, fighting, fast heart beats, suspense, etc... anything, we also tend to cry, passion arises, we also get angered, we feel a want of taking revenge! don't we? Please observe this, all these emotions experienced is not yours, but its of the character in the movie, but without knowing this, we experience all the emotions shown in the movie experienced by the character. Infact the character is you, not even the movie's. You become the Hero, you experience all the action shown in the movies as You. we even forget that we are watching a movie.

But, for a moment if you realize this truth that, "what is this?, Why am I feeling the same emotions as the Hero in the movie? How is this? I am just sitting here in the theatre in my seat, eating my popcorns, wait a minute, what is happening? I turned into the Character, I became the Hero for so long, and thats the reason why I have been experiencing all those emotions of the Hero-Character's. I don't have to experience them.

This is Consciousness. So long, due to ignorence, you were thinking that I am the Hero, and hence you were experiencing all those emotions. The moment when you became aware of the grand Truth, you are disconnected from the Character association of the Hero shown in the movie. The one that has been experiencing the emotions is the ego and not you. The one that became aware of this truth is you. IN reality both are one only, its you. Its just that you are awakened from the Maya of association with the Character.

Similarly, in real life too, its the same scenario. we tend to associate with real life characters, like you know - I have to be a perfect guy, I have to lead my life just like my father, I want to lead a life just like my idol, I want to be a Hero like Brad Pit, I want to be a Rajinikanth, like this, we have mistaken identity of ourselves, which we are not. When this knot is broken, we are detached from the mistaken identity. I want to be a great Spiritual practicer like xxx, I want to be like Muruganar, I want to be like Kavyakanta, etc... By this mistaken identity, the Ego gets its satiation, if circumstances do not create an appropriate scenario to be like who you want to be then, we suffer the emotions of the mistaken idenity character, like we can't write poetry like Muruganar or Kavyakanta, howmuch so ever we try. We try to Be like somebody all the time. This is attachment.

We want to be a Guru, teach others, give spiritual discourses, clear doubts of others,.... all these, these are just few examples, but you see, this mistaken identity is so very very subtle, we don't even know, or realise this fact, by enquiring deep, we will realise that what this? how stupid I have bee, I have been trying to be like somebody all along, this is Samsara. being attached with your mistaken identity.

Once when this realisation arises, we are detached, detached from our mistaken identity. Jnana arises, from now on, the Sadhana is only to abide as our own pure Self rather than again being identifyied with the mistaken identity and being the mistaken character. This is what is actually Vasanas, by virtue of our mistaken knowledge of our mistaken identity so long, we keep forgeting this truth that I am not this But only
"I AM" This is True Sadhana. This is the real essence of the "Who am I?" enquiry of Bhagawan, this Mistaken identity is the Ego and you are not that. You are pure without any character association.

Hope this helps

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 11:56:34 AM »
Dear Nagaraj and amiatall,

Only the emtions of true weeping and shedding tears
come up naturally.  One cannot artificially weep and shed
tears without having that emotions in him.  Whereas laughter
can be artificial.  We have seen villains in the films laughing
for a long time and this is artificial.  But one cannot weep
artificially.  One needs glycerine to bring about tears!  No
such external medicine for laughter.  Even child's mock weeping
the mother knows very well.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 12:02:49 PM »
:) Yes but for such a one, that weeping is not an ordinary weeping but its Bliss incarnate. For us, it may seem like weeping, but Such Jnani don't even know they are weeping. We describe it as weeping based on our own experiences. We have read that Ramana Maharshi cried on reading Kannapa's story. It appears as an emotion for us. .... Its not an ordinary weeping. It itself is Bliss. Bliss itself is That.

All our actions and state are just like Cinemas we ourselves are producer, director, hero, scriptwriter and everything. :)


॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 12:11:26 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I am reminded in this connection what Dr. Karamchandani,
the Parsi doctor who attended to Bhagavan during His last
days.  He says the tears of sorrow come about on the lower
portion of the eyes.  The tears of bliss come about on the
edge of the eyes.  On the last evening Mrs. Karamchandani
gave a glass of orange juice to Bhagavan.  She had come all
the way from Vellore to see Bhagavan and submit this glass
of orange juice.  She had darshan and Bhagavan took the
juice without bothering about restrictions on food and drink
etc.,  Immediately, the milling crowd outside began chanting
Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva and the sound rented the
air in the Asramam.  Karamachandanis saw Bhagavan being
exteremely happy about the approaching time and He shed
tears!  The doctor says that the tears came from the edge of
the eyes!

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 12:24:49 PM »
Dear Subramanian :)

The scriptures, Vedas, and Jnaanis call it Nectar. Itseems when the Sahasra Chakra opens, nectar keeps flowing out...

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

amiatall

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 02:46:08 AM »
Dear Lovable Subramanian,

It does not oppose my view nor it supports my view. My view is forming along this path :)

Some of my thoughts-
So action can be: thinking, walking, eating etc. By practise we subdue the action of thinking and then realization comes that we are not the action-thinking, so now we are aware of action called thinking, before we were not aware because we were thinkers or as according to Nagaraj we can say we were in the movie. So as you are not the thought/out of movie - you rise above it. Now it appears that you are thinking, it appears that you are doing, it appears that you are body, but it isn't you (movie is still playing it does not disappear). You know that all that is is an appearance only.
So why understanding is necessary to transcend everything if we already THAT? Suppose we give intellect to sugar and it tries to realize its sweetness by this intellect and tries everything, goes to apples, goes to various sugar-sages but can't realize itself until it just gives up and realizes that it is what it is and it can't taste its own sweetness it can only give it. So God developed not only sugar but self-aware-intelligent sugar, now it is independent and takes part in common creation and helps God. So, some spiritualists says intellect is the root of evil, but we have to admit that this ingredient called intellect plays some role in consciousness evolution. what can it be?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Five Questions on Who am I?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 11:06:38 AM »
Dear amiatall,

Excellent.  All thinking and all doing are the plays of the
mind.  We are always That, as you have correctly said.
Then why god creates the mind?  The individual soul,
as long as it does not cease thinking and doing, it does
actions good or bad and accumulates merit and demerit.
The realization is the point where there is zero merit
and zero demerit.  So the individual soul with its mind/body
complex, takes birth again and again due to this knapsack
of merits and demerits.  If you do a lot of good, and perhaps
no bad, then you end up in Heaven, which is only a temporary
abode as per Hindu theology.  Heaven is not LIBERATION.
Heaven is a prize and afterwards, you come back to the
earth.  If you do a lot of bad, and perhaps no good, then
you end up in Hell.  Hell is not a permanent punishment.
It is only a punishment centre from which you come back
to the earth, to start your game.  When both good and bad
become zero, there is LIBERATION, or Self Realization.

Since there is zero goodness and zero badness of deeds,
it is presupposition, that your mind is not at all
active or is dead.  Death of mind is liberation.  Mano Nasam
is Moksham.  This is exactly what Bhagavan Ramana says.
Till such time, the mind carries the prana and leaves the body
because the body is totally soiled is not fit to occupy!

Arunachala Siva.