Author Topic: 9. What is the path of inquiry for understanding the nature of the mind?  (Read 8030 times)

paul

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That which rises as ‘I’ in this body is the mind. If one inquires as to where in the body the thought
‘I’ rises first, one would discover that it rises in the heart. That is the place of the mind’s origin.
Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place. Of all the thoughts that arise in
the mind, the ‘I’ thought is the first. It is only after the rise of this that the other thoughts arise. It is
after the appearance of the first personal pronoun that the second and third personal pronouns
appear; without the first personal pronoun there will not be the second and third.

The question and answer is taken from Who Am I ? (Nan Yar ?)
The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi.

The technique :
'Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place.'

It bowls me over. Something so simple, it just requires effort.

Paul.

Subramanian.R

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Dear Paul, you are correct.  Bhagavan says if you enquire Who am I?
and keep meditating on "I", "I", it will lead you to "I-I".  This "I-I"
is the Self or Brahman or Paramatman or Siva.  In Tamil, Bhagavan
writes 'Naan' and 'thaan'  Naan is I and than is I-I.  The same usage
is also seen is Upadesa Undiyar,  Upadesa Saram in Sanskrit and
Telugu.  Who am I? defines the Self and prescribes many steps as
aids to self-realization.  I was just now writing to Sankar, that each
step is important and is diffcult to practise.  Bhagavan also says,
"you simply repeat you own name.  It will take you to the Heart or
the Self.  Astounding.  The poet Tennyson, without any intention,
was repeating his name, and he found extraordinary bliss.  Since
every one who is a Brahman in this world, cannot be called 'I',
elders have given different names to different people.  Hence one's
own name like 'I' is quite potent to merge in the 'I-I' or the Self.

Arunachala Siva.   

SANKAR

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That which rises as ‘I’ in this body is the mind. If one inquires as to where in the body the thought
‘I’ rises first, one would discover that it rises in the heart. That is the place of the mind’s origin.
Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place. Of all the thoughts that arise in
the mind, the ‘I’ thought is the first. It is only after the rise of this that the other thoughts arise. It is
after the appearance of the first personal pronoun that the second and third personal pronouns
appear; without the first personal pronoun there will not be the second and third.

The question and answer is taken from Who Am I ? (Nan Yar ?)
The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi.

The technique :
'Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place.'

It bowls me over. Something so simple, it just requires effort.

Paul.

DEAR FRIEND

DO IT PRACTICALLY AS "WHO AM I" IT S VER EASY TO SAY VERY DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW.

ANY THOUGHT COMES TO THAT    I  ONLY

SO GO ON ENQUIRING WHOM THESE OTHER THOUGHTS ARE ARISING AND AS TO ME; THEN WHO IS THAT ME , THAT IS I; THEN WHO IS THAT I ; AND REPEAT IT LIKE THAT CYCLE TILL IT REACHES IN YOUR HEART. DONT LOSS YOUR PATIENCE, AS IT REQUIRES LOT OF WILL POWER, PATIENCE, PERSISTENCE, TOLERANCE, TIME, DEDICATION, DISCIPLINE AND SINCERITY WITHOUT THESE IT WILL NOT REACH US TO THE HEART.

YOUR HEART HAS TO BE PURE THEN IT IS EASY TO REACH THE DESTINATION. IF NOT THAT HAS TO CLEANSED WITH THE ABOVE PROCESS TILL THE PURITY IS ACHIEVED AND THEN IT WILL REACH YOU TO YOUR HEART. IT IS EASY FOR US TO GO AROUND THE WORLD BUT IS DIFFICULT TO TRAVEL TOWARDS THE HEART OF OUR OWN. HOW SAD IT IS TO THINK.
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Dear Paul and Sankar,  'I-I' is another name for Atma, the Self.
Bhagavan says even if you keep one telling I, I, I, it will lead you
to the Source that is Atma.  Poet Tennyson once as contemplating
I, I, I ... and found that he got immense peace and satisfaction.
When this was told to Bhagavan, He said, 'Yes, Yes., Since everyone
in the world cannot be named as 'I', they are named differently, 
Even if one contemplates on his name continuously, it will lead to
the Self.  If Paul keeps on contemplating, Paul, Paul, Paul,... it will lead
him to the Self.  This is the true experience of many many devotees.

Arunachala Siva.

nonduel

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Dear Subramanian,

On the David Godman web site, there is an article of a few pages on this subject of "I-I". My undestanding is that "I-I" is when the "I-thought" dissolve into the "I", which Sri Ramana called the "I-I". But this "I-I" isn't the Self, Brahman yet. It is just "before" the absolute Self, Brahman.

This is what I humbly and respectfully understood from David Godman's explanation.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

SANKAR

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Dear Paul and Sankar,  'I-I' is another name for Atma, the Self.
Bhagavan says even if you keep one telling I, I, I, it will lead you
to the Source that is Atma.  Poet Tennyson once as contemplating
I, I, I ... and found that he got immense peace and satisfaction.
When this was told to Bhagavan, He said, 'Yes, Yes., Since everyone
in the world cannot be named as 'I', they are named differently, 
Even if one contemplates on his name continuously, it will lead to
the Self.  If Paul keeps on contemplating, Paul, Paul, Paul,... it will lead
him to the Self.  This is the true experience of many many devotees.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear sir

This seems right and easy way instead of confusing what to repeat like Siva, siva, arunachala siva, hari hara, om nama sivaya, etc

Thanks let me practice it  in silence

siva siva
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Dear non duel,  Very interesting observation.  Bhagavan is always
but very subtle.  This subtlety gives rise to many many interpretations.
Similarly, He has also told different things to suit the differing viewpoints
of the questioner/devotee.  This again causes many many interpretations.

David Godman has written many things that would dislodge the
conventional views on Bhagavan.  For example, David has said
that 'I-I' is a state just before merging in the Self.  But Who am I?
clearly says, 'I-I' is the Self.  The first thought that rises in the
morning, as you wake up from sleep, which lasts for an infinitesimal
time of less than one second, is again "I" which is just arising from
the Self.  Then only the "I" our first personal pronoun arises.  I am
for one, who believes that what  Bhagavan has said in Who am I?
is correct.  Again, it is left to the individual view point / experience.

David, has given rise to many such controversies!  He has said that
the Heart-Centre that is said by Bhagavan to be on the right side
of the chest, is not correct and that the Self is there everywhere
inside the body.  People have to take it or leave it, as their own
view point/experience demands.         

Bhagavan has said to mentally repeat, either Siva-Siva or Rama-Rama
or I am Brahman or simply 'I-I' or simply tell one's own name like
Subramanian - Subramanian or non-duel - non duel.  Each one is
correct, according to the questioner's viewpoint, and every one
of these will lead to Self-realization.

Arunachala Siva. 

paul

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Dear Sankar and Subramanian.R will the practise of those techniques lead to vairagya (and not to worry about it) or does that come from something else.
Paul.

Subramanian.R

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Dear Paul, practising self-enquiry, through Who am I? will confer
dispassion (vairagya) and also merging in the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

SANKAR

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Dear Sankar and Subramanian.R will the practise of those techniques lead to vairagya (and not to worry about it) or does that come from something else.
Paul.


DEAR SIR

THE SELF ENQUIRY WILL DEFINITLY REACH YOU TO THE SELF IN DUE COURSE OF TIME.

BUT DONT LEAVE YOUR PATIENCE, PERSISTENCE AND TOLERANCE.

FULL FAITH WITHOUT ANY DOUBT AND CONFIDENCE IS REQUIRED IN ENQUIRY.

ENQUIRY IS A EASY BUT TEDIOUS AND TAKES ITS OWN TIME BUT DONT GIVE UP. PRAY TO YOUR OWN GOD AND DIVE WITHIN YOURSELF BY WHO AM I?   ALL THE BEST

SLOWLY IT WILL BRING CHANGES IN YOUR VIRTUES.

JESUS WILL REACH YOU IN HIM
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Dear Sankar and Paul, yes, either total surrender or self-enquiry
will be adequate.  But it requires enormous patience.  The Tamil
songs say that it is like an ant walking on the rock continuously
so that one day the rock disappear.

Arunachala Siva.   

paul

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Dear Sankar and Subramanian.R thank-you very much for those words on self surrender, vichara and vairagya. They have helped.

Paul.

Subramanian.R

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Dear Paul, you can practise either "surrender", as in the case of
the leper, who stood up immediately when Jesus asked him to
get up and he was cured.  Or 'vichara' or self-enquiry.  Both lead
to the same goal.  But both need "vairagya" or non-attachment to
worldly things.

Arunachala Siva. 

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: 9. What is the path of inquiry for understanding the nature of the mind?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2008, 02:48:31 PM »
Mind is the imaginary power of self.It imagines as self cosciousness and the body and all other it knows other than itself.So mind is our primal or root imagination.
It will cease to exist only when we experience our real self which is the source,substratum and only real substance of our false finite self which is conscious of
itself as a set of adjuncts.Ego arises only when we are unaware of our self conscious being.Ego is a product of self-forgetfulness(Pramada)and is nourished by
deep rooted and persistent habit of ignoring the self and attending instead only to thoughts and objects which appear to be other than ourself.Mind is an
imaginary vehicle through which attention seemingly passes from self towards the object.Self-enquiry directs that attention selfwards and in that process all our attention is concentrated in the core of our being without any oscillation.Self-enquiry is nonobjective self attention and so it is nondual.Except self-enquiry all other
spiritual practices are dualistic in which ego is kept intact.Self-forgetfulness is experienced by the mind because self-forgetfuless is imaginary.Because it is only an imagination
it will cease to exist with self attention through self-enquiry.We should always cling to self-attention.This self attentiveness eventually blossom into true experience
of perpetually uninterrupted,unadulterated,adjunctless,absolutely clear self consciousness i.e "I am".The relationship between self and mind is like rope and snake,
the snake is just we imagine to be.Subsidence of mental activity is merely a byproduct of true self-enquiry.Self remembrance means uninterrupted self attentiveness
but not a mechanical repitition of a particular word or mantra using the mind.
pvssnraju

paul

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Re: 9. What is the path of inquiry for understanding the nature of the mind?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2008, 01:28:59 AM »
Dear DRPVSSNRAJU, I've got a question concerning the last line of your post which is :
Self remembrance means uninterrupted self attentiveness but not a mechanical repitition of a particular word or mantra using the mind.

The first half of the sentence corresponds with :
If one inquires as to where in the body the thought ‘I’ rises first, one would discover that it rises in the heart.

The second half of the sentence doesn't tally with :
Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place.

The repeating of 'I' 'I' 'I'...... is mechanical but by doing it other thoughts are kept out and so it becomes concentration. I believe that will get me closer to the Self.

Are you sure about the second half of the last sentence.

Paul.