Author Topic: A Spider and a Bee  (Read 10954 times)

sky person

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A Spider and a Bee
« on: May 31, 2009, 02:54:48 PM »
Hello all
Yesterday in my garden I noticed a Bumble Bee had been caught in a spider's web and was frantically trying to
get free . The spider was watching . Close to this another bee was on a flower being free .
I could have easily intervened and helped the Bee to escape , but i didn't .
This reminded me of the story of the monk who freed a deer from a tiger's grasp , but then realised he had denied the tiger
his lunch so he gave himself to the tiger ,who then ate him .

Peace sky .

mmohan

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 07:27:06 PM »
Very good. Everything to it's own fate. Accept everything as it is. The less we interfere with nature the better for the world. Left to itself this world and all it's creatures manage fantastically. It's only human beings wrong interpretations and manipulations that interfere with nature's smooth functioning. Let everything be as it is.

Now my question is : if I see an accident happening on the road before my eyes, should I interfere and help the victim or leave the scene without letting that affecting me? How is this situation different from the earlier one? How do we decide to just witness or to intervene in any situation we confront? Invite you all to throw some light on this dilemma.

- Mohan

shadak

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 09:37:34 PM »
Bhagavan said that we are free only for choosing to turn toward the Self or not, but that  as for the rest everything is predestinated since the very moment the body is born, even if you save a bee or not from a spider, and there is nothing to do about it. What do you say?

sky person

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 09:44:14 PM »
Dear Mmohan
Yes i would help someone  . I would be helping myself , and would not be denying anyone their lunch .

ramanaduli

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 07:39:33 AM »
Dear siirs

There is a story goes like that. One scorpian was sinking into the river. Seeing this a monk wanted to save it. But he was bitten by scorpian. Still the monk
did not give up. Seeing this action repeatedly, his deciple asked why you are helping it bearing the pain. The monk said, it is his tendence to bite whereas
it is my dharma to save it/ Now we have to decide whether we want to be monk or scorpian



Ramanaduli

mmohan

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 08:54:05 AM »
Let me put it this way. Suppose I see another man being attacked by a lion. Obviously the lion is hungry and trying to get its lunch. As another human being, do I try to save the man by killing the lion (with a gun of course) or let the lion have its lunch as nature intended? Anyway we end up doing wrong to one or the other. Where do we draw the line? Do we interfere only if human beings are involved?

- Murali

ramanaduli

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 10:51:51 AM »
Dear sir,

To save a person if we kill other one is good or bad.This is a question now. Well. The whole mahabharatha story is based on this line only. All Gods have weapon. why.To save other person. i.e. to save the Dharma. That is why Krishna insisted Arjun to kill his cousins. Sometimes we have this dilemma DHARMA SHANKATAM.
We have to listen our heart. Without expectation any reward we have to save the person. Rest leave to God.



Ramanaduli

Nagaraj

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 11:29:41 AM »
This is a classic case of "Dharma Sankatam" - "what to do" "This" or "That". If you are impelled to save, then so be it, if you are impelled to leave it, then also so be it. Whatever you decide is Ok and acceptable. and one has to remember that, one does not decide whether one has to save or not, it is already destined. we should never forget that we are only an instrument.

By saving, do we actually Give Life to the Bumble bee? or what makes us think that we are giving food to the Spider?

Even in this post, it is destined that the Bumble bee be as it is, it is also destined that Sky Person be just as he is, without saving it. Nobody did anything, or nobody does anything at any time.

Dot not take the Doership.

Whatever you do - you don't do
Whatever you don't do - you actually don't do it

All the rumble noise about all these is only the Ego's which is non existent and has got nothing to do with any thing that happens around us.

You are not the Doer at any cost at all times!

Nagaraj
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 11:31:16 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 11:39:21 AM »
Dear mmohan, skyperson and others,

There are always two sides of a coin.  How to reconcile?
Bhagavan Ramana says:  Whatever one gives to someone else,
he gives it to himself.  When you harm others, in fact, you
are harming yourself.  The situations become different.

The spider is still in its place most of the times.  Hence when
a prey comes to its net, it has to eat.  It does not go out
much like other insects like butterfly, cockroach etc.,
Hence it should take its food, that is made available to it.

The man who met with an accident, needs help.  Because,
he is suffering, may be due to his negilgence or the motorist's
negilgence.  Still help is essential.

A lion taking a man.  Here, man should be saved, because,
he is in distress.  A lion may get some other animals and it
need not be a human being.

Everywhere Prarabdha or destiny plays a key role.  Bhagavan
Ramana says:  "Praradha will feed you, whether you like it
or not." The feed may be good food or poison and other miseries.

Arunachala Siva.

 

ramanaduli

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 03:45:30 PM »
DEar Nagarai ji and Subramaniyan ji

As it is the prarabda, sometimes we get confused and sometimes we do not and carry on the work. But sometimes we do realise that we could have done
in better way. In this place we feel little disturbed. AT this point, is our ego gets disturbed? I think before steping into spirtual studies, we should know
how the ego came in to us, and how and when all it plays its trick. When some one says I am suffering, it does mean that there is no real suffering to him
only his ego is suffering. Is it correct? At that time what is our duty towards the person. Ignore him or to help him.



Ramanaduli

Nagaraj

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 04:09:49 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

If you study yourself carefully, you will discover that there is pinch of desire for the result. this is the problem which most of us face. We have to wipe out/dissolve this salt so that the pure self remains like a Spatika without any desire about the outcome. It does not matter what the fruits are going to be.

The Ego gets disturbed only because of this reason alone - having some sort of desire about how the outcome has to be.

In Upadesa Saaram, Ramana has said -

kartur äjnayä präpyate phalam
karma kim param karma tajjadam

By the will of the Creator, action bears fruit. Is
action, then, supreme? No, it is inert, unconscious.

We don't have any rights whatsoever on our part as to what fruits we are going to get.

éshvar-ärpitam necchayä krtam
citta-shodhakam mukti-sädhakam

That action which is done without personal desire
and whose fruits are surrendered to the Lord,
purifies the mind and leads to Liberation.


By consciously praying to oneself that my duty is to only perform actions and have no rights on fruits, one will abide in peace. Remember the eternal teaching of Bhagawan, whenever you get disturbed -

The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabdhakarma . Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.


Reflecting thus, the mind-ego will get pacified and abide as peace.

Before performing any actions consciously telling to ourselves that Now, I have only this action to perform, this duty to perform, I will perform it to the best of my abilities. I know that I don't have any rights on what I am going to get back. But Lord give me the strength to accept whatever you give. and at the same time, I also pray Lord to give me strength to bear all difficulties.

By such constant practice in daily life, every moment, the Ego will be trained like a Tiger of the circus. It has to be trained.

Bhagawad Gita also says the same -

karmany evadhikaras te
ma phalesu kadacana
ma karma-phala-hetur bhur
ma te sango 'stv akarmani

You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty.


I have come to understand by my own experiences that Spiritual successes only come after this has been mastered.

Sri Ramana

« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 04:13:05 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 04:58:12 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli & Nagaraj,

When Bhagavan Ramana was in His last days [ He had pain,
which should have been unbearable for anyone else], the
attendants asked Him:  "Bhagavan!  Is it paining too much?"
Bhagavan Ramana said:  "Yes, the body is paining!"  He was
not the body or the mind.

Arunachala Siva.

mmohan

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 05:07:52 PM »
Dear Nagaraj, beautifully put. But it takes a hell of an effort to master this in real life. Many a time we stand at crossroads confused as to what our dharma is and worried whether we are commiting a sin by either doing or not doing. This dilemma is all the more when you are halfway in the spiritual path. A completely materialistic person as well as the jnani has no such problems as they are fully comfortable with whatever they do or don't do. As it is rightly said in the scriptures, to escape from darkness to light, we have to successfully pass through greater darkness or confusion (the dark night of the soul?). Only complete faith in God/Guru can take us through without getting mad. Again what is right for one person in his path may be completely unsuitable for another. Hence each one of us have to find our own unique way to salvation.

- Murali

ramanaduli

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 07:11:00 PM »
Dear sirs,

In hindu tradition, there are so many gods, to grant our wishes. like for education, saraswati is there, for money lakshmi is there the list is endless.
We (I) pray to all these gods, for each one of these grants. That time my mind is expecting the result. I cannot sit simply when my family faces
problem. I pray to God to grant my wishes. If does not take place, then I remember all philosophical saysings, It may be easy if you are all alone.
Sometimes I used to feel if I would be able to talk to Bhagavan I would say, how it is difficult to live in the family, seeing the sufferings and read
all spiritual books. My ego is very strong never admits anything if something goes wrong.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: A Spider and a Bee
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2009, 10:25:39 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

That is why the saints have said pray to one god.  Choosing
different gods for different boons is not correct.  Even this
one god cannot answer your prayers all the time.  This is
where our Prarabdha comes into picture.  We should learn
to accept the pains and sorrows.  We should learn not to
get elated by the pleasures and comforts.  This is easier
said than done.  But this is the fact of life.  One God is
sufficient.  Saint Manikkavachagar sings in Tiru Thellenam,
in Tiruvachakam:

For the One who does not have even one name and one form,
Let us pray with one thousand names,
Play Tiru Thellenam!

Thellenam is a game for the girls, where they use small
stones or tamarind seeds and throw them up and catch
them again.

Arunachala Siva.