Author Topic: Important points for the seekers  (Read 7977 times)

ramanaduli

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Important points for the seekers
« on: May 28, 2009, 12:30:05 PM »
What are the important points we should remember during our sadhana.




Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 04:43:45 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

In any Sadhana, concentration is the essence of success.
If it is Puja, cocentrate on the Puja, on the idol to whom
you do Puja, concentrate on every flower that you offer,
concentrate on the mantra you chant.  Live in total concentration, till you offer Arti, place it on your eyes
and complete the Puja.

If it is mantra japa, do not count the mantras.  If you
do so, your mind will go only into the counting mathematics.
Do it without counting, as far as practicable.

If it is meditation, instead of mediating on Pure Space,
try to meditate on a symbol, say Bhagavan Ramana's face
or feet.  Chant mantra within your lips and if any thought
drags you out, you mentally imagine, that you are placing
a flower on His feet and come back to the meditating mode.

This is my practice.

Arunachala Siva.   

matthias

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 07:42:25 PM »
my sadhana is as follows(I practice tibetan buddism so some terms might be new):

I start with the 9 breath, a cleansing and focusing meditation,always done in the beginning to create afresh mind...

then I recite prayers to guru padmasambhava (to remove hindrances on the path)

then I either do a vajrasattva cleansing visualization (that burns away karmas and removes hindrances to enlightment) or I directly start with dzogchen meditation

then anyway 15 - 20 mintues dzogchen meditation....sitting relaxed and simply triing to relaxe into the moment or presence....thats the easiest explanation I can give...anyway one needs contact to a realized teacher in order to get benefit from this meditation...

sometimes I do the blue-hung breath also in this phase...it is a analytical dzogchen praxis that slowly weakens the believe that there is something else then open space and awereness in the inside or outside (it actually transcends the believe that there is a bounery between inside and outside or that something like an inside and outside exists in reality...)

then I recite prayers again

then comes 15-20 minutes tonglen (giving and taking meditation for opening the heart):
here I visualize guru ramana maharshi, I visualize him sitting in my heart center (the conventionel one not the spot on the right side) I stay with this a while, till I feel his grace unfolding

then I start to breath in my pain, hurt, muscle tensions....all that stand between me and total surrender to what arises....this I breath into the heart center, there bhagawan tranforms it with his loving gracefullness into love and compassion, then I breath out this love and compassionate energy to myself...

then I proceed further, I breath in my pain, and the pain of other seekers facing the same problems like me...and I breath out love and compassion to me and these seekers...

then i continue even more and eventually breath in all pain and struggle of all sentient beeings and breath out love and compassion in return....(thats why it is called giving and taking)....I usually do not proceed so far, as my concentration and also my heart capacity is not big enough for htis...and it is clearly stated that you should understand your own pain before you take in the pain of all samsara

I cry alot while I meditate in this way, it is a very strong meditation and visualizing bhagawan in the heart is a strong heart opener for itself...

then I calm down and make dzogchen meditation again (sometimes with red hung, only I did the blue hung before...this is to destroy all sense of "substance" in the inside and outside world)

tonglen should always be practiced between sittings where one meditated on awereness...becasue the emotional turmoil can be very strong so you have to remain witness to all of this (therefor the dzogchen meditaiton before and afterwards)

then I recite prayers and send all the benefit out to the world that I may have recived through my practice...

then I mostly lie down on the ground in the "corpse" asana and meditate on beeingness itself...as deep as possible, sometimes I enquire like bhagawan (what will be left when I die, what is there that is deathless...) I never reached nirvikalpa samdhi but I had some kinds of dhyana and the liing on the ground is important to "integrate" the insights into the body...letting the body go more and more...

thats it...of course I do not have the time to meditte this long every day, but when I have the time I use it..

when I do not have the time...I just make dzogchen meditation or self enquery to start the day..



silentgreen

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 09:13:23 PM »
I remember a saying of Holy Mother Sri Sarada Devi which means:
This world is not your true home, but your sadhana will take you to your true Home.

Sri Ramakrishna said:
When you meditate, think that your mind is tied to the feet of the Divine Mother.

Sri Ramakrishna also said:
When you worship, think that you and your Lord are the only two persons in the world.

I remember a holy person saying:
When the rays of the light from the lamp touches the image of the Lord, the Lord blesses it and
when the reflected rays touches our eyes, we get the touch of the divine.

I also remember the same person saying:
Whenever one prays to God, God appears immediately, but we do not understand it.

Also a saying,
Do not get up immediately after worship, for the divine blessings descend during that time.

One of my friend once said that:
During meditation he once felt that Goddess is keeping her feet on his head, so his concentration
did not waver.

For self-enquiry,
Put the head to sleep and keep the heart awake.
Feel the I-I consciousness shining within the cave of the heart.


Om Shanti ...
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

sky person

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 04:35:08 AM »
Hi
I always remember that this (everything) is God now.
Practice implies that something is lacking , that there is something better in the future,
and you could keep postponing forever .
Get here , this is God now .
Sky ^^^ Om

matthias

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 11:09:49 AM »
yes very true sky person

but if it is the truth then why not practice? as practice is also arising in the here and now, so why stop practicing if it is not different from god?

of course one can think that practice is an expression of something lacking...but thats also ok isnt it? so why stop practicing?

natural perfection is the here and now, and if everything is always natural and perfect then why say that when I sit down and meditate, the natural perfection is not present...the scriptures indicate that something like this is not possible...no little self has the power to eliminate the fact that everything is always selfliberated activity of conciousness...including practice, arising in it, so it would be a very strange thing if meditation is the direct means to make natural perfection disapear....(it is always there but when I sit down to meditate upon this fact--> then it is gone?)

so if the mind-set now starts to say: practice is an expression of my ego saying that it is not complete and whole,so I should stop with it and be in the here and now...(beeing here and now is no activity anyway)

then who says it?


anyway hello to the forum :) and please clearify




ramanaduli

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 12:38:27 PM »
Finding ourselves looks like going merry go around. The question "Who am I" if we ask ourselves, then who is asking,
supposing if I do not ask this question, there are lots of chating within my head,  If I open my mouth and tell what is going on, I have to do with
the mind. Therefore I think the questioner and the question both are the same mind.  The question also arises from the mind. The answer also lfrom the mind.Is not it. At the same time some one is witnessing all the happenings.
So the person who is seeing all the happening is THE SO CALLED CONSIOUSNESS.

Am I right?


Ramanaduli

shadak

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 07:12:57 PM »
Dear ramanaduli,

Yes, what is aware of everything going on but doesn´t react nor act on it, is consciousness and the inner guru. The I is a thought, if mind gets concentration on it, thinking´s movement stops and there is only this primal thought which has a component of consciousness as well, so you leave aside the thought and concentrate on the consciousness aspect of the I. This consciousness is not different from the  Self  Itself, since there aren´t two self nor two consciousness but only one. Practice, as Bhagavan taught us, is an instrument for stilling and cleaning up the mind in order to be what we are without identifications with what has been added  which is body and thoughts. So, practice is not for getting something we lack of but, au contraire, to leave aside what is leftover. It is like cleaning a gold object covered by rust, uncontrolled thinking without attention or awareness  is what generates the rust but gold is there already. We can´t meet gold through an act of willing, this meeting is something that just happens. All we can do is to clean the mind and we do it because we are impelled by the Self to do it. That´s enough, for me at least. Problem is that our habit is to do everything in order to get something else and not to do just for the sake of doing, when true is that the first doing slaves and the second one frees. 

silentgreen

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 09:28:08 PM »
Hi,

This is what I feel:

Yes, during self-enquiry one abides in the underlying awareness.
The awareness is behind all thoughts, emotions, feelings etc.
Initially thoughts seem to take the upperhand and the awareness may appear feeble,
but with practice the deeper self becomes more and more prominent and an inner tranquil void results.
During that state one senses the presence of "I-I" consciousness.
When this state becomes stable, it is no more required to mentally ask "Who am I?".
The attention by itself stays put in the deeper self as a honey-bee remains engrossed in seeping honey from the flower.

This state gives an inner calmness.
Thoughts, emotions etc disturb us less.
One can carry on with the daily works with a calm mind.

A yogi however goes much beyond this state.
For that full-time sadhana is required in a solitary place.
The engagements in the life of a normal working person will not permit this.


Om Shanti ...
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

sky person

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2009, 05:27:50 AM »
Hello again .
When i was a child we used to sing a hymn which went
All things bright and beautiful
The Lord God made them all .
So I always thought God was seperate , out there somewhere and seperate from his creation .
In adult life I spent many years trying different methods to try to attain enlightenment .
One day I realised that God cannot create anything that was not part of himself .Where would he get the stuff
from ? Borrow it from another God ? Then I realised that  I must be part of this too .
So . There isn't anything that isn't God in existence . Even thoughts are created and supported and are part of God .
But having read the above posts I realise that practice is very important too in many ways.
I'm a musician and have to practice a lot otherwise I get rusty too.
Thanks .Sky .


« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 05:32:19 AM by sky person »

ramanaduli

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2009, 07:07:18 AM »
Dear sir,

When you say thoughts are created by Him. Why people get bad thoughts. Who is responsible for bad thoughts and bad society.



Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 11:07:38 AM »
Dear sky,  Welcome to the Forum.

Dear matthias, silentgreen, shadak, ramanaduli and others:


Why bad thoughts?  If the Self is everything, one without
the second, why bad thoughts, then bad thoughts are also
the Self.  Yes, no quarrel.  But who created bad thoughts?
Is it God?  Bad thoughts and good thoughts, both are
created by us, due to our karmas.  God is simply is. He
has no thoughts.  Then who brought all the thoughts.  It is we.
Not definitely god.

Dear matthias and silentgreen,  Wonderful explanations
of the practices adopted by you.  The cleansing process
is called Chittasuddhi in Hinduism. One cannot simply
say, I am Brahman and keep on nourishing thoughts. The
practice is only to ward off the thoughts and try to become
thoughtless.  It is also, I can add, to remove the duality,
thinking god is somewhere outside in the Heavens.  This
duality, brings about other dualities also in life. I am good,
he is bad, I am miserable, he is happy, I am handsome, she
is not beautiful, --- all these crap.  The practice as Bhagavan
Ramana said is of twofold:

1. Vichara is one where one keeps his mind in Atma Swarupa.       

2. Dhayana is one where one considers himself with
conviction, bhavana, that he is Brahman and Sat Chit
Anandam.  Here, it is consideration, not thinking, with
bhavana.
         
                                       - Who am I?

Practice helps to ward off thoughts other than godhead.

Arunachala Siva.   

munagala

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2009, 09:49:19 PM »
Ramana says that thought is born out of sin. How do I classify a product of sin as bad or good?  :)



sky person

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2009, 11:18:24 PM »
Hi Munagala
Thought has also produced all the worlds literature and music ,not to mention medical science and all the
other sciences . Thought created the internet which allows us to talk now etc etc .

Back to practice
In Sri Shankara's Vivekachudamani he says

That truth cannot be realised through purificatory baths , offerings , breath control , or any other
practice . He who seeks liberation through knowledge of the Self must enquire into the Self with the help
of the perfect Guru .......

sky

Subramanian.R

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Re: Important points for the seekers
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2009, 10:37:42 AM »
Dear munagala,

Thoughts are product of sin.  Here, the sin means ego,
which is the first principle, that divides man and godhead.
This thought can be good or bad.  Bad thoughts, we all
agree create bad actions.  Even these bad actions are
called bad according to circumstances.  A soldier can
kill any number of soldiers of enemy camp, and get
appreciation.  But if he kills a civilian on the road, he
is punished.  A king can marry any number of girls
and bring them to his harem.  A citizen cannot marry
many girls.  So all good thoughts also produce evil.  Take
atom bomb.  It came out of a detailed experiment in scince,
whose basic laws of relativity and thermodyanamics are
quite good for peaceful purposes.  But the same principles
created an atom bomb and killed lakhs of people. 

Now to bad thoughts, bad thoughts apparently produce
bad actions which are sin.  But there could be some bad
thoughts [very rare indeed], which can produce good
results.  Like the rishi who decided to bluff to the hunter
who had come chasing a deer, saying that there was no
deer on that side.  The deer was saved.  All said, it is a lie.

That is why, Bhagavan Ramana said:  Summa Iru, Be Still,
Be thoughtless.  But it is quite difficult for most of us.

Arunachala Siva.