Author Topic: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness  (Read 5408 times)

ramanaduli

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Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« on: May 17, 2009, 11:15:44 PM »
Dear sirs

Please explain about these.

Death......No life  and no mind.  What about the consiousness.
deep sleep..........Life is there but no mind'
coma.................Life is there but no mind and no consiousness?   Is it?
Unconsiousness.....Again life will be there  but no mind.

Those who will do sucide, what about their consiousness.
or what is the different in between  gyanai's death or agyanani's death.

your comments please...



Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 12:18:28 PM »
Dear ramanaduli,

Death - Both mind and prana, go away from body to catch
another body, for a rebirth.  There could be some time intervals.

Sleep -  Mind is under suspended animation.  Breath is there.
              (See Who am I?)

Coma, unconsciousness -  These are all like sleep only. No difference.  Excepting that coma could be for a longer time.

In all the cases, Consciousness is there.  Even in dead body,
the Self, consciousness is there.  Like it is in atoms and electrons in a log of wood or stone.  Because Consciousness
is One without a second.

A Jnani if He is a Jivan Mukta, like Bhagavan, the death is
only leaving the world from the point of view of body only.
His Spirit is everywhere, eternal. His mind and prana stand
merged in Siva within already.

Where is a Jnani who gets liberated at the time of death,
his body leaves the world, his mind and prana merges
in Siva at the time of death.  The Spirit is of course, is eternal. 

An ajnani leaves the body, with mind and prana.  The mind
carries the knapsack of good and bad merits, depending upon
which he takes a birth again. 

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 01:35:22 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There is death only for the one who has a birth. What dies is what is born. So it is thoughts alone that is taking birth and dies for countless times. Are you born? first find out when you were born!

God is always praised because of this natural law - what is born must die. this is what happens when you sleep. you are dead, i.e. you thoughts are dead. well we are not aware during our sleep because we don't know that we are consciousness. that awareness is present even during sleep. when we know that we are the consciousness, we would not even have the requirement of sleep. for there is no more birth or death (of thoughts) consciousness alone is.

Coma is same as sleeping state - awareness is not present. no consciousness. therefore, it lays as a dead body.

Unconsciousness is the state we are even at present !

The death. what we know about death and birth is only what we see outside - when we saw a child being born we then thought - "oh so this is what is called as birth, and similarly, when we saw an old man die, the we thought - "oh this is what is called death"  the fact is that one cannot  find out his own Birth or Death. Try as much as you can, you can never trace your own birth - only so called others tell you when you are born - say you are born on 01/01/2001 at 02:30 hours etc.... this also we only believe what others say! can you know where from you originated?

The fact is you never originated! you are ever there, you have no death - for you are that awareness, that consciousness! Nothing dies or nothing is born! what dies is only the thoughts alone!

Nagaraj


« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 01:38:56 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 04:29:15 PM »
Dear ramanaduli, Nagaraj,

What Nagaraj has said is quite correct.  Except that even
in coma state, the Awareness is still there, moribund.  The
patient may come back to life at any time.  Some people
have come back from coma state after 10 years.

In Tamil, the states of wakefulness, dreaming and sleep,
[that includes fainting, coma, etc.,] as Three wastelands,
Mup-Pazh.  For a Jnani all the three states are wastelands
only, the Pazh=zero.  Muruganar has composed a verse
on this.  Beyond this, is Turiya, the only Real state of
staying in Brahman, even to call it as Fourth is incorrect,
because that is the only Real and Permanent state.  In
Tamil verses like Tevaram and Tiruvachakam, one comes
across this word, Muppazh.  Saint Poet Tayumanavar sings:

Muppzhkum appalai enru poven?

When can I to "the beyond", that is really beyond the
three states?

Arunachala Siva.   

shadak

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 07:11:54 PM »
“Unconsciousness is the state we are even at present !”

Dear Nagaraj,

This statement of yours is not correct. At present pure consciousness is here, mixed up with body, thoughts and self consciousness though, which is just a reflect of the first one. If it wasn´t so, any of these would exist nor even Bhagavan Sri Ramana could have been able of becoming pure consciousness. What He did was to focus attention on this pure consciousness which is here and now in all of us already, leaving  the rest aside. And so He asks we all to do as well. How could we do it if our state were, as you say, a state of unconsciousness? Perhaps inattention would be a more correct term for our usual state at present?

ramanaduli

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2009, 07:10:22 AM »
Dear sir

All comments are explained beautifully, The  problems due to the vasanas, we forget in day  to day life. That is why saints say
VIZHITHRU. be awakened.


Ramanaduli

Nagaraj

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 08:17:17 AM »
Dear Shadak,

I feel what I have said is correct according to my understanding - If the consciousness is not permanent then, I can't help say that even even this moment, I am in some state of unconsciousness state. I am not in a position to acknowledge that I am in that BLISSFUL state. If at all the consciousness is awakened, I would not have any need to be here discussing and learning more from here!

Consciousness is a state which is permanently being in the present moment. what ever we discuss here is only based on our past experiences. the mind lingers around this knowledge vasanas - to be in the present or the Turiya is to be even beyond knowledge!

Pure Consciousness is ever present, there is no denying to that! But can we call it Pure Consciousness if it is mixed up with Body, Thoughts? What Bhagawan did was only to raise others up to consciousness who have so long been in an unconsciousness state!

Please see this - only when you got in touch with Ramana was your consciousness brought into light, but until then? what can we say? Unconsciousness of our own self! thats what I meant! But you see our Vasanas are so strong that even after being shown light by Ramana about of true self - Consciousness, still we linger around this knowledge and needless discussions!

Nagaraj
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 08:23:16 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2009, 11:18:56 AM »
Dear shadak, ramanaduli and Nagaraj,

Every one of you is correct in the way that you are explaining.

Pure Consciousness = Brahman = Atma

self-consciousness = only awareness of the body mind
                                      complex, even though the Pure
                                       Consciousness is ever present.
                                       It is like a smoke around the fire.

In the state of fainting, coma and sleep, the self consciousness
is temporarily absent, but prana going and coming reveals
that the body is not dead.

In the state of Samadhi, Pure Consciousness alone is present.

Arunachala Siva.

shadak

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2009, 05:28:29 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I couldn´t explain why being the presence of pure consciousness not a thought, nor an idea, nor a myth but a fact for me, I still  need to go on learning and to have  the support of  sat sang with Bhagavan´s disciples. It only explains why  Bhagavan´s teachings make so much sense to me, and why  I look for this support and work in order to clarify the mind. But you are right: intellectual discussions based on knowledge are not helping, they make mind to become confuse and agitated instead of quiet, and only calmness and stillness can bring clarity up to it.
Anyway,  latest clarifications of  Subramanian on  ramanaduli´s question could be a good explanation. It is not the same to be only aware  of the body mind complex that to have as well the unquestionable feeling of  something else which is beyond it but supports  and, somehow, generates it. I think that most of us are at this point and that it is not helping either to belittle this feeling as mere thought or intellectual knowledge just because mind is not fully enlightened. It is not my intention to convince anybody, but it was my responsibility to point to what is a very common mistake because belittling this felling, instead of making mind strong in inquiring, debilitates it.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2009, 01:41:32 PM »
Dear shadak,

Yes, you are correct.  Self enquiry is not an intellectual
process.  Bhagavan Ramana says,: Ask Who am I?  This
question is the only thought, which can be asked to oneself
either one single time or a few times, whereafter, one should
know His Self within and dive deep and merge with the Self.
There is no point in asking Who am I? everyday for the
whole life time, without comprehending that there is no
answer for the question.  Bhagavan Ramana says it should
be used as a stick that stirs the funeral pyre.  It is an
instrument to burn the corpse in the fire fully and finally
it is also thrown into the fire for its own destruction.

Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2009, 04:28:47 PM »
Dear Subramaniyan ji

Until we get merged in the self, mind will wander and ask the question who I am? Till that time is not necessary to keep on asking the question?
Already who are baked may not be asked no. of times. In my case questions are coming up. I unserstand the stick is not burned up.
PINAM CHUDUM KAZHLI. is not burned up.


Ramanaduli






Subramanian.R

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2009, 05:32:28 PM »
Dear ramanaduli,

Do not worry.  We are all in the same boat.  Bhagavan
Ramana is an exceptional case.  He asked the question,
once, on the upstairs of his uncle's house in Chokkappa
Naicker Street, and got the answer.  He has said in one
conversation,  that the entire death experience, might have taken about 20 minutes.  He has infact, addeed that there
was no element of time at all.  He got the answer i.e merged
in the Self never to come out of it.  But it does not happen
to everyone because of prarabdha.  We may ask the question
a number of times.  That is why, as a matter of concession,
He said: You keep one thought and stick to it, instead of
several swarming thoughts, that makes a person and his
mind weak.  Arunachala Siva is one such great thought which
has helped me in life.  This is the Mahamantra for me.  Namasivaya and other mantras need an initiation from a guru.
This mantra, Ramana Guru has told me and everyone, in His
Akshara Mana Malai.  It is a mantra said by Him standing on
the summit of the Hill.  It is for everyone who can hear.

Arunachala Siva.

shadak

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Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2009, 06:22:22 PM »
Dear sirs,

Bhagavan Sri Ramana said:

“... the ego [our mind or primal thought ‘I’] has one and only one [relevant] characteristic. The ego functions as the knot between the Self[,] which is Pure Consciousness[,] and the physical body[,] which is ... insentient. The ego is therefore called the chit-jada granthi [the knot between consciousness and the non-conscious]. In your investigation into the source of aham-vritti [the thought ‘I’], YOU TAKE THE ESSENTIAL CHIT [CONSCIOUSNESS] ASPECT OF THE EGO; and for this reason the enquiry must lead to the realization of the pure consciousness of the Self.”

So, it is not just a thought but something else what is the subject of enquiry, that´s why I call it a "feeling". One may start with the thought but, sooner or later, it becomes a feeling, something completly subjective that one doesn´t think that one is, but that one IS already.