Author Topic: Sharing an experience of practice  (Read 6103 times)

Paintbrush

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Sharing an experience of practice
« on: May 09, 2009, 06:39:36 PM »
Hello everyone,

This is my first topic post and I thought I would share my recent experience as I find it very startling,

I now practice being present - and have found this to be an effective way for stilling the mind. Now obviously, I practice to reach the ultimate goal but have found the attachment to ego so strong, and this is really demonstrated by the results and findings of my practice. I find that I get scared - as I get a glimmer of our true nature, very quickly the ego says,

"Who is this, this is new - it's not who you thought you were" I then become quite unsettled. Guru would say

"Who is becoming unsettled" - I know this is the mind snatching at familiar forms, so I shall stay with it and observe and continue to remain in the present. But isn't the ego so insiduous and crafty!

Love to all
PB

matthias

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2009, 02:07:08 PM »
welcome paintbrush

how you can practice presence? please explain

first ultimate goal is a false understanding....as the search for an ultimate will never bear results other then the understanding that the mere search is the biggest hurdle

goal orientation is without ground, as the fruit(self) is allready here...so why make it a goal?

otherwise I know what you mean :) nothing is more scary for the ego then to loose its throne....and this will be long way...you see the ego is not hte enemy, not at all, the ego should become the friend of atma vichara...an aid to it, it is there, god wnated it to be there...so who is in our brest to say EGO = ENEMY (other then the ego?)....please understand that body,mind and speech can not reach or even touch the self, so do not beign to fight the ego with the ego..it is a pointless war and will lead to fatique and a very agitated mind

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 04:19:55 PM »
Dear matthias,

I see your point.  The Ego is not the enemy and one cannot take
up cudgels right from the day one, to fight it.  As you have correctly
said it will not lose its throne so easily.  And that is the reason for
a vague sense of fear that one gets when doing sadhana or self
enquiry.  The fear is created by the ego, so that one will give up
the search and takes up problem as to how to overcome that fear.
It is said (rather jocularly), five men out of ten, give up the effort,
three become neurotic and only two make it to the goal.  I have
read somewhere one of SRK's first disciples (not out of the sixteen)
became mad.  Even this imaginary madness is the conquest of
the ego upon you. 

But at the same time, I shall not consider the ego as enemy.  It is
like a nagging wife who is constantly at home, does all work, but
keeps you irritated every now and then.  There is a Tamil song, which says that "the disease is one which takes birth along with you inside the body to kill you."   Udan piranthe kollum, vyadhi.....
Even modern genetic scientists say that every man's disease is
in the genes even at the time of his birth.  One can take the ego
also like that.  The best way is to turn a deaf ear, to the extent possible, as you do to your ever-nagging wife and continue
your search for Truth.

Arunachala Siva.   

matthias

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2009, 06:42:21 PM »
yes to start a fight wit the ego is a misstake, as just the ego will battle with the ego...

the self is toatlly formless, one...has no ambitions at all....it does not care if we realize it, if we give up the search etc..

and it want fight anything as it is complete, so the one cannot fight against itself it is not possible...logically

the only fight that will arise is a fight inside the mind: mind agianst mind....and that is toally pointless as the mind is not real at all..so leave it alone like you say...

Paintbrush

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 12:21:07 AM »
"how you can practice presence"

Hi Matthias,

To practice being present is to surrender to the present moment, the only moment there is, rather than become embroiled in thoughts. For me, this is an effective practice - in this expansive space, I can then ask;

"What is the nature of that which perceives", and become aware of my awareness without (too much) distraction,


Love to all
Paintbrush

Paintbrush

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 12:25:33 AM »
"yes to start a fight wit the ego is a misstake, as just the ego will battle with the ego..."

And thankyou for this Matthias, very easy to forget - a thief becoming a policeman.......

Paintbrush

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009, 11:55:08 AM »
Dear matthias, Paintbrush,

Bhagavan say that both the self and the Self are formless.  Because
they are not two, they are only the one without a second.  Names
and forms, come about when one takes up a thought and that is the
mischief of ego/mind/intellect.

But one has to know the real nature of the mind, only through the mind!  Bhagavan says, with the mind that is stone, you polish the
Ruby, that is mind.  (Arunachala Ashtakam Verse 5).  He also says
when a sugar-doll gets into sweet milky ocean, it dissolves and becomes the milky ocean.  (ibid. Verse 3).

Arunachala Siva.

silentgreen

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2009, 10:13:06 PM »
Dear Paintbrush,

I feel that the practice of being present is quite effective and upon maturity, is of the same nature as abiding in the deeper self.

When enquiry is forced from outside to inside as a mechanical practice, it can sometimes lead to an inner conflict...
this can happen at a subtle level inspite of the best intentions of the practitioner....
the practitioner comes to know of this from the effect...that instead of a peaceful expansion, the mind ends up being more disturbed...

Self enquiry is more of the nature of inside-out phenomenon, of abiding in the deeper self...

In the outside-in process, one may need to jostle with the ego, and the ego may look insidious...
During the inside-out process, there is no conflict and the ego is looked upon as an expression of the infinite in the finite...

However the deeper self may not be apparent during the initial stages...

The deeper self opens up more and more as mind attains more and more purity...
i.e. attachments start fading, aversions start fading and the joyful being "starts rising" from inside to permeate...


Om Shanti ...
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Paintbrush

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 06:59:44 PM »
Thankyou Silent Green,

The method I use - in the present - I assume this would be outward - in? Having meditated for ten years or so, I have only recently started to practice this method, and have found it most effective. But my attention is still routed in exterior forms in order to ground in the present and stem the flow of thoughts. I am heartened that you allude to the maturing of this practice in yielding a deeper insight, and look forward to the maturing of my practice in acknowledging the ego as an aspect of the infinite.

I also offer thanks for this forum, and the real wisdom I am able to draw upon here,

Kindest Blessings to all

Paintbrush

 

matthias

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 12:58:07 AM »
dear paintbrush

the whole joke is that beeing present is what we always do...

it is our existential level... to be present...always

and the most shocking thing is, we cannot do it....as soon as we do presence we identify with something else (a doer)

this moment is spontaniously arising without anyone who could choose it to arise or not....I cannot say Now there is a moment...now there is no moment, it is totally impossible....as we are present when we recognize it and we are present when we "loose" it

it is good to focus on presence, a very important practice, it is mindfullness I think...(but you say you surrender....if you surrender to it then it is genuine vichara)

but when meditaiton has an aim, goal, a method then it will lead nowhere...because if we put in effort we miss the effortles everpresent awereness....as soon as we meditate on the moment we negate that the moment is allready there...we take a dualistic position like: "here is my self and there is the moment"...but the here and now is all there is...it is the self

we can believe in maturing or non maturing of our practice, we can think that we proceed or that nothing is changing...awereness is not effected...it is simply there...we can say no Iam not present or yes now I got it....presence doesnt give a.....

pardon




Subramanian.R

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 10:28:09 AM »
Dear matthias, Paintbrush,

We are always Awareness, the evershining, the ever present Self.
Why we are saying that we are not aware, on many occasions, is
due to the operation of the ego.  The ego is like a cloud or smoke
or screen that covers the Awareness.  The removal of this screen,
or smoke or cloud confers us the Revelation, which is ever present.

Bhagavan Ramana says two similes in this connection.

1. One is the bird flying over the sea.  It gets tired.  But there is
no resting place for it.  It hovers around the sea for a long time
and then comes to the earth.  It perches on a tree and heaves a
sigh of relief.  It has found its resting place.  Now what is it, that
makes a bird to go over the sea?  Unless it can get some fish (only
fish pecker does it), it has no reason to go to the sea.  But it goes.

2. The second is river.  The river comes from the rain clouds, which
are again caused by the hot sun over the sea water.  The rain falls
and it becomes a river, due to heavy flow of rains.  The river's
birth place or cause is actually sea.  The river flows from west to
east or from east to west, gets tired.  Finally it goes back to sea.

Arunachala Siva.       

silentgreen

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 09:29:55 PM »
Dear Subramanian.R,

I feel it is exactly as you said...
The ego is like a cloud that covers the Awareness.

Normal people "feel" Awareness along with the coating of the ego-cloud...
It is a rather dull feeling compared to the Pure Consciousness which Yogis feel without the coating of the ego-cloud...
The Yogis who are able to stably abide in that Pure Consciousness...
the ego-cloud, even if they rise does not bother them....

I also feel that however much a person tries to intellectually understand the Self,
they will only get the dull ego-cloud coated consciousness....
at best restlessness of the mind will get reduced to a great extent...
but it will never enable one to "see behind" the ego-cloud to the Pure Consciousness..

A person who did not have a glimpse of the Pure Consciousness will never understand what joy lies hidden within the human consciousness...
that by the grace of God if the ego-cloud gets cleared even for a brief moment,
the face of the Pure Consciousness is revealed, and life seems to be blessed....

The Pure Consciousness can only be reached through purity of the mind...
there does not seem to be any shortcut to it,
(apart from grace of sages which can quicken this process)
The purer the mind, the thinner is the ego-cloud....and the purer the consciousness.


Om Shanti ...
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 11:34:05 AM »
Dear silentgreen,

Yes.  We are all Awareness.  It is the vasanas, which are like
clouds, that obstructs its revealing.  The vasanas are carried
from the previous births and it appear right from the moment
the child is born.  It looks for mother's breast for milk!  People
without vasanas are always Awareness.  There is ony Nammazhwar in Sri Vaishnavism.  He was born under a tamarind
tree.  He is ayonija, born not through a mother's womb.  He
therefore cared for nothing.  He just consumed air and lived!
He is called Sadagopa, for the same reason.

Arunachala Siva.

matthias

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 12:56:10 PM »
dear silentgreen and subramanian

I think it is very important to do not see vasanas or the ego cloud....as alien to awereness...

they are not, we know this....the ego may be pure (brahman) or impure.....it is always awereness.....

even if I do not totally life up to this fact...Iam certanly not a great yogi who burnt away all impurities, Iam full of egocloudings....I still think that the "view" that the self is nondual and all and everything should be seen as a total truth

this aids the "process" (thats seems to be happening) of detachment from the vasanas...and thus they are destroyed or not?

through detachment not through an aggressive confrontation (even if this in some cases may also help)

I love this dzogchen verse:
being born earns us the unborn state


Paintbrush

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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 04:45:48 AM »
Ego is a perplexing concept - this I say from my limited perspective. The spiritual path has yielded an exit and release from previous disturbing periods of my life. At the root cause was of course - ego. The premise that it can be an aid, a cohort, is a nice surprise - I say "surprise" because I can genuinely feel the import of the words above, but previously I have been attempting to run away from ego.

I remember my experiences as a child - a teacher I once followed spoke of "Peak Experiences", by which he meant those moments of pure consciousness - I will not bother to elaborate as words will do no justice. These moments I recall, having experienced them often as a child. But as a child, I most definitely had a sense of self - and it was pure and expansive. So ego was present, but not a hindrance. This I take solace from, a recollection that serves as my "pacemaker", and I look forward to merging once again with that consciousness.

Love to all
Paintbrush