Author Topic: Sharing an experience of practice  (Read 6304 times)


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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 07:29:02 AM »
Dear Matthias,

What I feel is this:

You are correct that the ego-cloud is part of the same awareness.
(being born earns us the unborn state - a very nice saying)

By saying that there is ego-cloud is simply a statement of facts which does not refute the non-duality of awareness.
The ego-cloud is simply finely "mixed" thought coating.
Even with it the awareness remains non-dual.

It is like clean air and polluted air.
A mountain person when coming to city feels that the air is heavy.
If he tells the city person that he is breathing heavy air,
the city person (if he has never gone outside), may not understand it,
for he is also breathing air from the non-dual space involuntarily.

However the fact remains that the air is polluted.
It partially covers the Pure Consciousness.
How to sense it?
Everyone can sense thoughts in the consciousness so there is no need of proof.
However there is a another good indication.
The Self is said to be of the nature of Sat-Chit-Ananda (Being-Consciousness-Bliss)
Everyone experiences being and consciousness at all times and may not feel anything missing with respect to these attributes.
I feel ananda is the crucial factor.
Everyone wants peace and happiness.
If peace and bliss is not manifesting spontaneously from within, it is because Pure Consciousness has been "mixed" with thought coating.
(Ideally Pure Consciousness is always free but we are talking from the relative plane)

Coming back to the city person.
If the city person goes to a nearby hill and feels the difference;
coming back to the city, what can he do?
Will he always put an oxygen mask on the face?
or, carry a light-weight oxygen cylinder on the back?
or, go to oxygen booths and breathe fresh oxygen now and then?
(which can happen anytime in near future)
or, plant trees and make the city green and the air fresh? (a good step)
The plight of the city person seems to be helpless.

Here is where the novelty of self-enquiry comes in.
If self-enquiry is broken down into two logical divisions:
1. All thoughts come from the root "I" thought
2. With "Who am I?", enquiry, the root "I" merges in the Heart (and becomes one with Self).
(And the entire process should ideally happen seamlessly with non-dual awareness.)

Then we find that self-enquiry as explained by Bhagavan is indeed very novel (even intellectually).
It bridges the gap between the scattered thoughts, the ego-I and the Pure Consciousness.
It also shows the path to follow (heart route) to seekers who are identified with body-consciousness.
This is novel since previously lot of confusions prevailed as to where to fit the ego in the scheme of things.

The first division gives great hope to a meditator, since he need not go on detecting thoughts one by one and try to erase it with an imaginary eraser; since when ego-I is got hold off, the scattered mind should become gathered  (ideally vanish from the conscious mind) immediately.
Neither does the meditator need attempt to fly off from thoughts.

The second division gives an even greater hope, since "behind" the root "I" itself lies the Infinite Being,
and the entire ego self can be merged in the Heart.
(The second division I feel is also the bridge between Jnana and Bhakti.
Jnani's merging is equivalent to Bhakta's surrender though with some differences in specifics)

Upon maturity, the entire process should ideally happen seamlessly, with non-dual awareness, without any ego conflict, as a single step and without any time delay.
Sri Sadhu Om used the term Self Attention which is very appropriate to summarize the entire phenomenon.
(To a Yogi, who always abides in the Self, the enquiry is not required anymore.)

However in spite of the best intentions of the enquirer, ego conflict can take place if the enquiry is not properly done and gets stuck in the mental level.

Now what is the relation between Self-Enquiry and purity of mind?
Ideally Self-Enquiry is a direct process and does not require any other aid.
(With repeated practice Self-Enquiry itself acts as a purificatory process)
However with purity of mind, self-enquiry becomes easier.
The bliss and expansion of the deeper self that is felt with purity of mind naturally draws the mind inwards and keeps it in the inner stillness.

That is why in Patanjali Yoga Sutras Yama and Niyama has been placed before Dharana and Dhyana.
Also we find in the life of Sri Ramakrishna that he used to master different sadhanas in days which could have taken years and lifetimes by others. This can only happen due to the purity of the mind. When the mind is pure, the specifics of the external forms of sadhana does not matter any more.

Om Shanti ...

Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...


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Re: Sharing an experience of practice
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2009, 12:52:55 AM »
what you say comes froma  very clear mind and understading of the path

I would not add anything to it and it can stay there as it is

I just htink for myself, that the "view" of atma vichara is important...that there is just self, self searchign self

therefor if we pin down special attainments or a special state...we are on the wrong track...because we search for something that is totally beyond our reach....jet we try to reach it...

and that effort is on one side a big problem and on the other side it is selfrealised activity...the only activity we should do....

so our effort should be to reach what is allready there but never reachable..and htis is the only effort we should do.....(and it is crucial for me, even if I meditate, sometimes 3 or 4 hours a day, even if I meditate Iam that....even if I struggle to reach it, Iam that...allready the self allways...when the paradox of meditaiton arises and vanishes Iam totally it...)

as in the case of ramana maharshi and other fully realized beeings..we should aspire nothing less but this final attainment: to be allways in bliss of the see but this is a very high state of realization and very very seldom

and we should keep in mind that we have our karma and no matter what happens we are allways the self, so nothing can harm us

like the famous buddhist saying (I have to translate from german into english so it may come out a little wrong):

if it is the best for me to die , let me die
if it is the best to life, let me life

so if I reach total realisation tomorrow: ok, if I struggle the rest for my life: ok...both is just a mind trick

as what we are is totally beyond illusion and reality....moksha or maya, samsara and nirvana it is the root of it...

and jet not reachabel by our limited efforts, but this kind of effort is the only effort we should do...but we should not forget that we will never reach it with effort, maybe we reach it through grace...but even this has to be proven to I believe that it is always the case...I believe that the "grace" is the very fact that it is allways the case....that we cannot attain it, because we are allready there and that is the grace...not some miraculous happening that will make this miserable matthias into a jnana,that is not grace for me....grace is the very fact that Iam allways the Self and that I cannot do a thing to earn it or to avoid it...I may feel bliss or I may feel like a dog...iam allways allready selfrealized activity...I may acknowledge it (nirvana) or be ignorant of it (samsara)....

and I think that this view is as important as the actual atma vichara or meditational praxis....