Author Topic: Was Christ an Avatar?  (Read 9075 times)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Was Christ an Avatar?
« on: April 10, 2009, 12:08:06 PM »
Arthur Osborne writes in an essay:

I have just been reading a book which declares that Jesus Christ
was not what the Hindus mean by 'Avatar' but something much more!
There is no need to give the title of the book or the name of its author, because it is by no means alone in its declaration.  Many Christian writers have said the same.  This of course, raises the question what the Hindus do mean by 'Avatar'.  The explanation given is so vague
and perfunctory that it prompted me to turn to the Bhagavad Gita and see what Krishna himself meant by it.  Reading that I began to wonder whether the author of the book that I mentioned had ever read it himself and what he meant by 'something much more'.  Here are some of the statements of what it means:

"Supporting that whole universe with a fragment of Myself, I remain as I am."     (X.42)

"I am the Self dwelling in the hearts of all beings.  I am the beginning, middle and the end of all beings."  (X.20)

"Knowing Me to be the source of all and all to emanate from Me, the wise worship Me with understanding."  (X.8)

"No action is incumbent on Me in the three worlds, nor is there anything unattained for Me to attain, yet do I act.... If I am ever
ceased from action, these worlds would fall in ruin."  (III.22-24)

"Though I am the Unborn and Deathless Self, though I am the Lord
of all beings, yet, resorting to My nature, I take birth through My
own Power." (IV.6)

"Whenever righteousness decays, and wrong prevails I incarnate.
For the protection of the good, for the destruction of the evil and for the establishment of right, I take birth from age to age." (IV.7-8)

"In whatever way men approach Me, in that way do I come to them. All paths men follow lead to Me."  (IV.11)

"I shall not be lost to him who sees Me everywhere and sees all in Me,
nor will he be lost to Me." (VI.30)

"Out of thousands, perhaps one strives for perfection; out of thousands who strive, perhaps one knows Me, as I am.  I am the
origin of the whole universe and also its dissolution.  There is nothing higher then Me. All this is strung on Me like beads on a string." (VII.7)

I had thought of going systematically through the Gita and picking out such declarations, but is there any need?  Is this not enough to make the "something much more" sound like a vulgar bazaar cry of
"My religion is better than your religion"?

(Source:  Be Still, It is the Wind that sings - A book containing the essays and poems of Arthur Osborne, originally written for Mountain Path.)

Arunachala Siva.       

munagala

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2009, 08:33:11 AM »

My take is that when any demi-god or God descends to earth in human form with a specific purpose is an Avatar.



Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2009, 10:45:00 AM »
Bhagavan Ramana has said that an avatara is the embodiment of
God for a specific purpose of killing an enemy.  A Brahma Jnani
is Brahman itself.  He has no specific enemies to kill.  He comes
only to eradicate the overall deterioration in knowledge and values
amongst people. 

Arunachala Siva.   

matthias

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2009, 05:56:27 PM »
this links buddha with ramana and christ with krishna....

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 06:32:01 PM »
Dear matthias,

All are the manifestations of the Self, that took birth without
any previous karma, only to help others, depending upon the
times and the need at those times.

Arunachala Siva.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 02:08:35 PM »
Isn't the difference that Avatara can control His karma according to Gita? Jnani has no will to change anything about Himself, He just is absorbed in the Self? My humbe opinion is the Avatara (which derives from Skt. ava- "down" and tarati "(He) crosses over") is every full manifestation of the Self - Guru, Avatara, Mahatma, Jnani, Buddha and so on.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

ramana_maharshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 02:38:43 PM »
If we concentrate only on teachings then even nityananda teachings are great and you should accept him as your guru.

Swami Nithyananda's teachings are aligned with the Advaitic school of thought of Sri Adi Shankara. He defines Living Enlightenment in simple terms as living a conflict-free life.He is well known for his spiritual discourses and has given teachings on scriptures such as the Brahma Sutras, Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, Shiva Sutras, Jain Sutras and the Bhagavad Gita.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Nithyananda#Teachings

How much time it takes to read few books and act like saint?


Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 03:00:10 PM »
Dear prasanth,

Since Christ has come down to earth, only to direct the people of Sinai to the good path, He is a Jnani. Of course, He is the
son of Father and has no karma to work out. Just like Sri Bhagavan. An avatara comes for a specific purpose of killing one or
many who do evil deeds and create problems for people at large.  Such an avatara withdraws itself on its own.

Arunachala Siva.     

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 03:11:12 PM »
Christ has come down to defeat the Satan by the teachings of the Heavenly Father written in His Heart. Who is the Satan? Metaphysically speaking he is our ignorance. Is there greater enemy than Satan?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6087
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 03:22:07 PM »
Dear Hari,

No,i believe there is no greater enemy then ignorance! It is our only enemy for sure.

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6087
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 04:01:01 PM »
I agree with Sri Prasanth on this. If we have faith in some teachings,it will lead us for sure to the Right teacher. That faith and innosence,is all what matters. Sure it doasnt mean we should believe in anything,but sincere faith is great obstacle breaker. And,it is not the teacher who is 'giving' us the Truth,but the Truth itself. So even if someone doasnt know what he is speaking about,but there is the Truth in his words,the Truth will touch that one who is prepared.

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 04:05:23 PM »
If we concentrate only on teachings then even nityananda teachings are great and you should accept him as your guru.

Swami Nithyananda's teachings are aligned with the Advaitic school of thought of Sri Adi Shankara. He defines Living Enlightenment in simple terms as living a conflict-free life.He is well known for his spiritual discourses and has given teachings on scriptures such as the Brahma Sutras, Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, Shiva Sutras, Jain Sutras and the Bhagavad Gita.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Nithyananda#Teachings

How much time it takes to read few books and act like saint?
This is what is to be done with regard to any teaching :

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.- Buddha
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6087
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 04:11:58 PM »
Yes,i agree with You,dear Atmavichar100. I like this quote alot.

And just to correct myself,or add something,faith in God is all what is important.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2012, 04:40:15 PM »
Sri Udai, without belief how could we have the determination to follow Guru's or God's prescription. Initially, when there are no results of our sadhana, only the 'blind faith' keeps un on the track. Am I right?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Was Christ an Avatar?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2012, 04:57:26 PM »
But what if someone dosn't believe but he/she has deep desire for liberation? Is that enough?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html