Author Topic: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry  (Read 20981 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 03:41:28 PM »
Dear Udai,

Exactly :), There is pain but not making it a suffering is accepting that the perception of the pain(perceived) and preceptor is one and the same!

Deeply if we think about this, we will find that "When someone calls me a fool" it also arises from the Self itself. When we get to know that someone calling me a fool is false. there is actually no somebody at all for our ego to function.

Just like how everything originates from the Brahman (Self). The Self alone is the reason for everything.

When we enquire who am I, we will come across millions of thoughts moving around. we see that all these thoughts have been originating from me alone and slowly we let these thoughts pass knowing that they have originated from the eternal 'I' similarly the other persons etc also will be found to originate from the Self alone when we enquire deeper

Can there be any hate, anger, etc on our Self? Hence when anyone calls me a "fool" I would not let it affect me. Who is actually calling Whom a fool? is one and the same.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009, 03:51:13 PM »
Is there a need within us ('you' 'I') to be acknowledged from somebody that we ('you' 'I') am/are realised?

Its this need that leads us to endless cycle! We may never be able to get such an acknowlegement for there has to be somebody apart to acknowledge something!

Like how Knowledge by itself is its own authority, it does not need and there is no other authority apart from itSelf!

Nagaraj
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 03:54:27 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009, 06:48:09 PM »
Dear Udai,

Very True and excellent examples! :)

We have to abide in this thought constantly! But to abide in this thought is also an idea, an effort...

Now we know the eternal "I" now.

After death experience, Ramanar knew who HE really was, then He was always able to remain as He is.

Can we say now that we now know what WE really ARE?

I know this is just an attempt to comparison! But  you see... cant help!!!

What Do 'I' want ??????????

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2009, 02:26:46 AM »
Devotee: When I try to meditate, I am unable to do so because my mind
wanders. What should I do?

Bhagawan: Your question furnishes the answer. First, with regard to the first
part of the question, you say you concentrate, but do not succeed.
‘You’ means ‘the Self’. On what do you concentrate? Where do
you fail? Are there two selves, for the one self to concentrate on the
other? Which is the self now complaining of failure? There cannot
be two selves. There is only one Self. That need not concentrate.
You ask, “But then, why is there no happiness?” What is it that prevents
you from remaining as the spirit which you are in sleep? You yourself
admit that it is the wandering mind. Find out the mind. If its ‘wandering’
stops, it will be found to be the Self - your ‘I’-consciousness which is
spirit eternal. It is beyond knowledge and ignorance.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2009, 10:00:08 AM »
Concentration is only to ward off the other thoughts.  A security
guard at night duty at the entrance of the house, concentrates
to ward off the thieves and burglers.  The treasure in the house
stands safe.  The treasure does not walk off.  Only the thieves
should not walk in to burgle.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2009, 05:01:29 PM »
‘I exist’ is the only permanent, self-evident
experience of everyone. Nothing else is so self-evident
(pratyaksha) as ‘I am’. What people call ‘self-evident’ viz.,
the experience they get through the senses, is far from selfevident.
The Self alone is that. Pratyaksha is another name
for the Self. So, to do Self-analysis and be ‘I am’ is the only
thing to do. ‘I am’ is reality. I am this or that is unreal. ‘I am’
is truth, another name for Self. ‘I am God’ is not true.

- Sri Ramana

How true... as long as we are just 'I am' there is absolute peace.


Devotee: If I am not the body am I responsible for the
consequences of my good and bad actions?

Bhagavan: If you are not the body and do not have the
idea ‘I-am-the-doer’ the consequences of your good or bad
actions will not affect you. Why do you say about the actions
the body performs “I do this” or “I did that”? As long as you
identify yourself with the body like that you are affected by the
consequences of the actions and you have merit and demerit.

Devotee: Then I am not responsible for the
consequences of good or bad actions?

Bhagavan: If you are not, why do you bother about the
question?

Devotee: Then does that mean that if one has not the
sense of ‘I do this’ or ‘I am the doer’ one need not do anything
at all?

Bhagavan: The question of doing only arises if you are
the body.

             Simply Be...

Nagaraj



« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 05:16:27 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

S.Subramanian

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2009, 11:05:40 PM »
The enquiry can also be made with the search 'Where is the origin of thought?'  When thoughts are withdrawn by this enquiry, 'I am' starts to flash (sphurana).  At this state the mind is very calm and unperturbed.  Body seems to be floating and actions are effortless.  However, this is not a realized state.  Often we may slip down from this state.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2009, 11:37:20 AM »
Dear S. Subramanian,

I am happy you mentioned this variation.  Sri Sadhu Om says:
Who am I? is also Whence am I?  (Wherefrom am ?).  But here,
one caution.  The origin is not merely the Heart Centre, but the Self,
which is everywhere.  Heart Centre can of course, be used for
initial period.

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2009, 12:03:05 AM »
Yes both are employed in finding the source!

I was contemplating today about the Self and following thoughts occurred to me

To be Self is absolutely free. What it is to be absolutely free? It means to be OneSelf. That is one should not be a slave. Slave of any kind!. You do something only for your Self alone and not for anyone, not because someone wants you to do something!

I thought deeply - everybody has desires, we know desires spring from ignorence. But how? I thought further. I took the example of a typical person from an IT industry, for a sincere person has ambitions etc... to do something in life etc... where does this ambition spring forth? for example we know Mr Narayana Murthy, when we for the first time saw him in a TV or directly, being the cynosure of eyes among media, people, among big industrialists, or may be the one close person who admires him so very much. It begins here. We want to be the cynosure of eyes for somebody - media, industrialists, or for even the close person who has a awe for Mr Narayana Murthy. the desire springs here, we also want to be the awe for somebody.

Similarly, in a cinema crazy country like ours, when one sees the Hero with all styles and glamour, wearing the cool googles, the desire springs to be like him, to be like a Shah Rukh Khan or a Rajinikanth, again for whom? they become awe for us because of the attention they get from the media, people and crazy galore that they get. We want all that and we try to become a Shahrukh Khan or a Rajinikanth.

Similarly, is the case even with spirituality, we want to be like Sri Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Sarada, or Vivekananda, thinking deeply, off course this desire is good for a Mumukshu but further we must discriminate ourselves and realise that I am trying to be like Ramana, Ramakrishna just like the desire to be a Narayanamurthy, to be a CEO, to be a Super Hero, to be a great devotee like Hanuman, etc...

Thus what happens in that we imbibe all their qualities, like we start behaving like Narayanamurthy, Shahrukh Khan, or a Rajinikanth, etc... some times even like other realised souls without our Self's idea and imagining that would give us all the happiness bliss and we would fulfill the purpose of our lives!

This this is so subtle, that we may not even become aware ourselves whom are we imitating, imbibing. It begins right from our childhood, our parents tell us we should become a scientist like Einstein, become a Hero like Kamal Hassan, become the President like Abdul Kalam etc... we get lost then, we forget our Self then and there and begin to focus on our objective!

Most popular is young people easily pick up the qualities of the street smart guys who is able to handle things in a heoric way, or in a very comedy way and gets attention of the people. This begins in school.

In all this, we forget to be ourselves. We are not any of them above, we cannot be anybody! We are but ourselves!

Thus I came to conclusion, that to abide as Self is to be free from some of the above or similar misconceptions and be independently as the Self alone! How to abide as Self - By not trying to be like somebody!

The best course is to imitate a Truly realized Guru, because imitating a truly realized Guru would only lead us to our Self for he operates himself as a pure Self alone where as the others operate from a different perspectives. I decided to the best of my abilities, I would each time, each moment think what Bhagawan would do for this situation, this moment, what would he be thinking about, what would be the best response for something to somebody, how would be bear insults, how he would remain calm even during testing times, how he is able to show the smile even with pain.

I also realized, that the problems of Samsara also arise out of being somebody else. there is no samsara when we dont be somebody else and just be. The best answer or to understand "Just Be" or "Summa Iru" is I felt to not be somebody else and just be! it makes more sense now!

To Abide as Self is to not to abide as Somebody's Self - off course both are the same Self, thats the whole problem! the same Self trying to be some other Self! Its not possible, the Self can only be itSelf!

This whole thing is so subtle, we need to just find out all that we are imitating, when we find the source of all our existing responses we would be able to trace it to somebody else. once we come to know it it looses its grip and we get closer to the Self.

What they call genes is only this, we primarily imitate our parents, grandparents, bulk part of our personality is not us - the Self but of our parents, grand parents and then the society, people, friends.

WE CONDITION OURSELVES TO SOMEBODY'S OPINIONS

This I concluded!

Nagaraj


« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 12:23:50 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2009, 10:48:30 AM »
To have "role models", is natural for every person.  This makes him
work for his improvement/evolution.  But what sort of role models?
Herein lies the big difference.  A true seeker keeps a sublime role model like Vivekananda or Bhagavan Ramana.  Such role models do
him good in life.  Bhagavan Ramana Himself went to Meenakshi-
Sundareswara Temple in Madurai, everyday and started staying a
long time before 63 Saints and cried uncontrollably, asking them or
Siva:  "When can I become like one of them?"  This feeling towards
sublime role model does good for one's life. 

But they are boys who see the 'stunt masters' in films and do
'stunts' or drag race and die.  Many youngsters seeing some film
heroes come to Chennai to 'act' in films and end up as street beggers or petty thieves.

The silk worm inside the cocoon, imagines itself a butter fly and in due course, becomes a butterfly!  This example comes in Vivekachoodamani.

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2009, 11:18:03 AM »
Yes the best course is to imitate a Truly realized Guru.

Mind by itself is conditioning. but whether we use the word deconditioning or something else, thats what we are trying to do when we meditate, when we enquire who am I, either voluntarily or involuntarily. we try to condition our mind towards the Guru, which is already conditioned on somethig else. we don't decondition, but again condition it towards a Guru. We should also remember that Mind is not separate form the Self, the Self itself is Mind and Mind itself is Self i.e. Rope and Snake.

We cannot and have no option to operate without our mind. So the best resort is to only imitate a Guru. as we keep imitating a Guru, who himself operates as Self, eventually we condition (decondition) ourselves involuntarily to abide as Self. Like how Nisargadatta Maharaj imitated his Guru for 3 years and became a Guru himself.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Transitional 'I'
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2009, 11:46:16 AM »
After having retired for the night, one has first to relax
from the restlessness and the tension of intellectual activity.
When sleep is nearing, one has to try to keep as the last thought
the resolution to meet as the first thing on awakening the
experience of the true ‘I’.

Deep and sincere longing will always succeed in this
experiment, if not immediately then after some attempts. The
first thing emerging from sleep into waking consciousness is
always the true ‘I’ pure, silent, absolute in itself, remaining all
alone for a few seconds, or even longer by practice. Other
thoughts start only a little later, testifying to the little known
fact that ‘Consciousness’ is not necessarily the same as thinking.

What is possible once even for a moment can be extended
by practice. This experiment gives you the advantage that
you now know the aim of endeavour. It will help you in your
further sadhana like leavening in the dough.

Sri Ramana Maharshi called this the ‘transitional I’ and
stressed the importance of this experience:
This transitional ‘I’ is a moment of pure awareness, which
is aware only of itself as ‘I’, pure identity in itself.

The ‘I’-thought’ is only limited ‘I’. The real ‘I’ is unlimited,
universal, beyond time and space. Just on rising up from
sleep and before seeing the objective world, there is a state
of awareness which is your pure Self. That must be known.

The moment you succeed, keep very quiet and observe:
this ‘I’ neither thinks nor wills; it has no qualities, is neither
man nor woman, has neither body nor mind; it has no trace of
the ‘person’ which you thought yourself to be up to now. It is
simply conscious of itself as ‘I am’. Not ‘I am this’, ‘I am
that’ — only ‘I am’.

But beware. It is not your ‘I-person’, who has this
‘I-Consciousness’ as an object, but this Consciousness is your
real ‘I’. This pure be-ing ‘I am’ is the first glimpse of the true
Identity, which is by nature Pure Consciousness.

To make this test of awakening in the morning is important
insofar as one knows afterwards what the goal for which we
embarked looks like. It also makes it easier to recognise it in
other circumstances. Moreover, this silent, alert awareness is
the last experience which the seeker can reach by his own
effort. For when his ‘personal I’ is wiped out, then all his
effort too has automatically reached its end. Where there is
no ‘personal I’ there cannot be any effort. What remains is a
consciousness which no longer feels but is listening within;
no longer thinks, but is silent; no longer wills, but lets happen
what will happen. It is exactly the state which reveals itself as
‘I am’, the true Identity.

Last but not the least it is this great experience of the true
identity of man which turned the schoolboy Venkataraman
into the world famous sage Ramana of Arunachala!

- Sri Ramana Maharshi
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2009, 12:11:15 PM »
The transitional 'I' is the one which stays in the Self during the sleep
and emerges out, after a trice of time in between as the egoistic I
in the morning.  The time interval is the 'glory of the Self' that is retained by the ego.  And that is as good as the Self.   Then the play
of ego starts.  Several ways have been recommended by advanced
seekes in this regard.  The one is to say some mantra, say, "Om Namo
Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namah", till one gets sleep.  If this practice
is continued for long, automatically, you will get this mantra on your waking up and that will purify your day's actions. 

In fact, I have been saying Arunachala Siva....Arunachala Siva...
which is the mantra given by Bhagavan Ramana, at the beginning of
Aksharamana Malai. This helps to a great extent.

Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2009, 11:27:10 AM »
Dear Subramanian,

Yesterday, I too kept chanting Arunachala Siva till I fell asleep, I dint know when I fell asleep, then the very first thing I remembered in the morning was Arunachala Siva. There was a very short moment, I was neither asleep, nor awake, but then I began to think where was I in that moment, just now? before I asked this question to myself!

Nagaraj


Devotee: What will it be like when one achieves Self-realization?

Bhagawan: The question is wrong, one does not realize
anything new”

Devotee: I do not get you, Swami

Bhagawan: It is very simple. Now you feel you
are in the world. There you feel that the world is in you






॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan on 'Who am I' enquiry
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2009, 11:39:19 AM »
Arunachala Siva is a Mahamantra, which is the cure-all in my life.
There are many personal miracles in my life, due to his mantra. 
I cannot reveal them.  Bhagavan Ramana started Akshara Mana
Malai with Arunachala Siva.  On the day of His departure from this
world, people chanted Arunachala Siva... Arunachala Siva, in chorus.
Bhagavan heard this and shed tears of Ananda.  This is the mantra,
from beginning to end in His life and should be in our lives too.

Arunachala Siva.