Author Topic: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya  (Read 27334 times)

Jewell

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 01:45:36 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Faith is needed for jnana also. Infact,because of faith and trust,someone can follow path of self inquiry. Is it faith in words ''You are not the one who You think You are.'',something other than faith? And that is exactly nothing else then bhakti.

Whenever You talk about that,You made division,and made a war which,in reality of things,dont exist. War is in You,my impression. But,You always put that kind of arguments where when someone defend jnana,automaticaly is against bhakti. And that is far,far from the truth!

For discrimination we needs reason,i believe. And how much will someone reason is not measurment of faith at all.

Aspiration is for peace and love,there is no doubt. But bhakti is not aspiration for love. Bhakti Is Love!

With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 01:48:58 AM by Jewell »

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 02:02:47 AM »
Jewell,
Faith is needed for any endeavour where ready outcome is not visible.I do not understand what you mean by 'War'.
I am not aware that I have pitched jnana against Bhakti.What I find myself pitching against is when someone is writing off what they call as Dualistic Bhakti.Bhakti is Dualistic only as indeed all sadhana are dualistic only.These are 'Mental' concepts and they only serve to cripple the small flame that a devotee is nursing .To douse it by a 'mental Concept' of jnAna is something that is extremely counter productive,and is positively harmful.This is something that a Guru will never allow;but in these days of Free access to Talks and Published material,every idea is latched on with gay abandon and indiscriminately served to all and sundry.
This is where the guidance of a Guru is paramount.
I know how people get crippled on account of this sort of this sort of a misadventure.I tend to step in when I find this sort of an unitended sabotage. :)
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2012, 02:06:58 AM »
Jewell,
"But bhakti is not aspiration for love. Bhakti Is Love!"
Aspiration is also one form of Love.Otherwise do we aspire for something we do not love?Just see how 'ideas' and 'Definitions' come into play.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2012, 02:13:52 AM »
O,i have seen that You like to step in now and there,dear Sri Ravi.  :)  Mister poliiceman Ravi.  :)

But i have a Guru!!!  :)

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 02:17:18 AM »
Jewell,
"For discrimination we needs reason"
To Discriminate,we need to see things as they are.It is to simply see what strengthens us and what weakens us.It is to see whether something is temporal or something is lasting.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2012, 02:22:41 AM »
Jewell,
You are Blessed to have a Guru.I may be a policeman but certainly have never ever wished to don the cap of a Guru! :)
I am happy to be the disciple of one and all.I only relish sharing the words of the Guru.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2012, 02:33:13 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi, You maybe share a word of Your Guru,but the one who decides that somewhere is sabotage,and share opinion is You. :) And i am still holding on my beliefs and seeing. Strongly! Mister policeman. :D With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2012, 02:51:30 AM »
Jewell,
Yes,It is me who senses that 'sabotage' and This is also as per the guru's guideline as well as from my experiences as well.
Here is such a Guideline from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Hazra entered the room and sat with the devotees on the floor. Hazra repeated now and
then, "Soham! Soham!" "I am He! I am He!"
To Latu and other devotees he often said: "What does one gain by worshipping God with
offerings? That is merely giving Him things that are His already." He had said this once to
Narendra.
The Master spoke to him.
MASTER: "I explained to Latu who the object of the devotee's worship is."
HAZRA: "The devotee really prays to his own Self."
MASTER: "What you say is a very lofty thought. The aim of spiritual discipline, of
chanting God's name and glories, is to realize just that. A man attains everything when he
discovers his true Self in himself. The object of sādhanāis to realize that. That also is the
purpose of assuming a human body. One needs the clay mould as long as the gold image
has not been cast; but when the image is made, the mould is thrown away. The body may
be given up after the realization of God.
"God is not only inside us; He is both inside and outside. The Divine Mother showed me in
the Kali temple that everything is Chinmaya, the Embodiment of Spirit; that it is She who
has become all this―the image, myself, the utensils of worship, the door-sill, the marble
floor. Everything is indeed Chinmaya.
"The aim of prayer, of spiritual discipline, of chanting the name and glories of God, is to
realize just that. For that alone a devotee loves God. These youngsters are on a lower level;
they haven't yet reached a high spiritual state. They are following the path of bhakti. Please
don't tell them such things as 'I am He'."
Like the mother bird brooding over her chicks, Sri Ramakrishna was alert to protect his
devotees
.

Please do not think that Sri Ramakrishna is alone in this advice.This is key to sanatana Dharma in that it takes into account adhikari Bheda-or differentiation based on one's stage in development and varna ashrama Dharma.'I am He' is pitched for Sannyasis ,who are totally detached from the path of Pravritti and are strongly oriented towards Nivritti.Today,these distinctions have Blurred and it is rare to find those on the path of Nivritti alone.This is a huge topic by itself and it may not be possible to cover it here.So,I stop here and leave you to your beliefs and opinions. :)
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2012, 03:05:25 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Thank You! I have enough experience that i can for sure to know what is best for me. Spirituality,and how will the Truth to manifest in ones life is too much complex to be explaned by anyone.and to be used in general. What i have seen is,that it is very unique in every case. Pitfalls for some,and testings for some,can be completely different then from any other case. I am certain in it! It is manifesting according to the nature and beliefs of each of us,and no one,no one can be better teacher then our own heart.
But,i will left to You also,Your own chosing when to interfere. And to myself,not to agree.  :)

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2012, 05:55:02 AM »
Jewell,
I have nothing to do with what you have expressed as that was never the topic that we were discussing.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2012, 07:25:42 AM »
Friends,
Just to revisit the topic that we discussed here-Here is a typical example from the post of udai :

Quote
D: There are various definitions of Bhakti.
G: There is only one: Self Abidance. No other definition.

D: What if a person does not know all these jnana terms and simply sits and prays.
G: If he abides as Self, knowingly then he is. Do you know the story of Prahallada from Yoga
     Vasishtam?

D: whats that ? Prahallada story is from bhagavatam.
G: Well After the story of bhagavatam , YV says, Prahallada had to meditate on that Vishnu as his own
     Self and only then he got liberated. Thats how he found true bhakti!

D: This is surely misinterpretation.
G: Then its done by Yoga Vasishta and not by me

This is what Sri Bhagavan says .An excerpt from The Letters of Sri Ramanasramam:
“Is ahetuka bhakti (devotion without a motive) possible?” asked that young man. “Yes, it is possible,” said Bhagavan. Some time back, when some others also asked
the same question during conversation, Bhagavan had replied saying, “Why is it not possible?” The bhakti (devotion) of Prahlada and Narada was only ahetuka bhakti.
The devotion shown by our Bhagavan towards Arunachala is an example of this type of bhakti. During the very first darshan, Bhagavan had said, “Oh father! I have
come here according to your orders and have surrendered myself to you.” Look! Bhagavan says, Lord Arunachala had ordered and that he had come! Why was he ordered and why had he come? Bhagavan had come and had surrendered himself completely. If asked for what purpose he had done all that, what is there to say! See the bhava (meaning) in the seventh stanza of Arunachala Navamani Mala written by Bhagavan in Tamil. This was translated into Telugu by
G. Narasinga Rao. What is the purpose indicated in this stanza? Nothing. Bhagavan tells us, now and then, that ahetuka bhakti, ananya bhakti, poorna bhakti and the like are synonymous with jnana and are not different.

To say that there is only one Definition of Bhakti is to limit its expression.If Prahlada had this Bhakti only after He did Tapasya ,how come that he Faced all the perils that came his way?Further if he had faced all the perils with absolute surrender to God,what more is needed ?Just what did he lack?
It may be easily seen that this Story of Prahalada in the Yoga Vasishta is not to be understood in the way it is projected in udai's dialogue.Rather it has to be understood to mean that Bhakti is ananya,although in expression it is dualistic.This is how Sri Ramakrishna puts it:

"The Lord said to Prahlada, 'Ask a boon of Me.' 'I have seen You', replied Prahlada. 'That is
enough. I don't need anything else.' But the Lord insisted. Thereupon Prahlada said, 'If You
must give me a boon, let it be that those who have tortured me may not have to suffer
punishment
.' The meaning of those words is that it was God who tortured Prahlada in the
form of his persecutors, and, if they suffered punishment, it would really be God who
suffered."


Again,the Master clearly says:
"Prahlada sometimes realized, 'I am He'; sometimes he felt that he was the servant of God".These are not two different things but two expressions of the same thing.

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:30:37 AM by Ravi.N »

Nagaraj

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2012, 07:45:59 AM »
Sri Ravi,

Your posts in the series were lucid and carries true spirit, and no where I have been able to notice any posts that distinguishes between jnAnA and Bhakti, unfortunately, those who do see such differences are rebelling with their own inner Self. It is elementary, if one is still bound by philosophies such as jnAna, Bhakti paths, and that one choses jnAna over Bhakti Bhakti over jnAna, etc.. and if one is unable to yet see the sameness in Gurus and their words, such jnAnA is really yet to be matured and blossomed. I am absolutely unable to see any differences in Bhagavan's teachings and Ramanar's teaching. I really wonder, how can anybody chose either Bhakti alone or Jnana alone, if there is onlly one then there is sure to be the presence of ego, True Knowledge does not come alone, Shiva and Shakti cannot be separated!

ulladu nArpadu, 22:

Without turning inwards and merging in the Lord His light
that shines within the mind and lends it all its light, how can
we know the Light of Lights with the borrowed light of the
mind?

Below is rAjAi's introduction to Bhajagovindam, that excellently conveys the essence.

Adi Sankaracharya wrote a number of Vedantic works for imparting knowledge of the Self and the Universal Spirit. He also composed a number of hymns to foster Bhakti in the hearts of men.One of these hymns is the famous Bhajagovindam. The way of devotion is not different from the way of knowledge or Jnana. When intelligence matures and lodges securely in the mind, it becomes wisdom. When wisdom is integrated with life, and issues out in action, it becomes Bhakti. Knowledge, when it becomes fully mature, is Bhakti. If it does not get transformed into Bhakti, such knowledge is useless tinsel. To believe that Jnana and Bhakti, knowledge and devotion, are different from each other, is ignorance. If Shri Adi Sankara himself who drank the ocean of Jnana as easily as one picks water from the palm of one’s hand, sang in his later years hymns to develop devotion, it is enough to show that Jnana and Bhakti are one and the same. Sri Sankara has packed into the Bhajagovindam song the substance of all Vedanta, and set the oneness of Jnana and Bhakti to melodious music.

(rAjAji, in his introduction to Bhaja Govindam)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2012, 08:04:44 AM »
Friends,

We are able to see the minute amoeba through telescope of mind but fail to see the huge elephant before our eyes, that is how the nature of mind is.

The whole discussion was basically about the true spirit, unfortunately, Sri Udai has been seen to repeatedly hijack several topics through his own observation by creating a debate. Take for instance, the Sadhana Tips debate, was absolutely needless!

The mind cannot dwell on God if it is immersed day and night in worldliness, in worldly duties and responsibilities; it is most necessary to go into solitude now and then and think of God. To fix the mind on God is very difficult, in the beginning, unless one practices meditation in solitude. - The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

he said, solitude in not at all required, later we saw how Sri Annamalai Swami Himself expressed the importance of solitude. We saw in his Guru posts, how he has been twisting facts and using it for proving his own expressions, unknowingly throwing ink on the great Sage such as PrahllAd. How he has subtly belittled scriptures such as Srimad Bhagavatam. This has been consistently noticed in the recent past, whereever any body expresses in general line about Bhakti, he has been repeatedly hijacking the sanctity of such threads. It can be seen quite evidently how he has been misquoting the teachings of Bhagavan and Sri Ramakrishna with just vague remembrances that were far from the fact and orginal quote to be found in the books. Jnana without Bhakti and Truth, is like virus.

There are several topics that have been twisted in these manner.

I had to vomit what was within. Thank you.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2012, 05:48:35 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj, I think we cannot see what is happening now,only,and to disregard why is happening in the first place. And that began when Sri Tushnim left first time. Again,we are in war with bhakti and Paramhansa,which is one big,fat lie. I am against messengers,and self proclaimed teachers,who work behind curtain,and who hide behind words of the Great man,pursuing his own agenda. It is a sacrelige,if You ask me. And i dont think Paramhansa would aprove that. Here are many threads opened to guide people,and when Sri Tushnim open it,it is dangerous? What is more dangerous,someone who is open and honest,or someone who influence people using questionable metods?! It was never about You,or bhakti,or Paramhansa,it was never about letter,but about postman. But,i guess,Bhagavan is use to sabotagers. With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 03:51:19 PM by Jewell »

Nagaraj

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Re: Important teachings of Tripura Rahasya
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2012, 06:27:36 PM »
Dear Sri Jewel,

Here are many threads opened to guide people,and when Sri Tushnim open it,it is dangerous? What is more dangerous,someone who is open and honest,or someone who influence people using questionable metods?!

Questionable methods ???  I am flabbergasted!

it was never about letter,but about postman. But,i guess,Bhagavan is use to sabotagers. With love and prayers,

Postman, when he changes the contents of letters and then delivers with his own contents, where is the postman?

I am against messengers,and self proclaimed teachers,who work behind curtain,and who hide behind words of the Great man,pursuing his own agenda. It is a sacrelige, if You ask me. And i dont think Paramhansa would aprove that.

i remain silent rather, to responding to this.

:)

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 06:29:07 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta