Author Topic: Bhagavad Gita  (Read 5431 times)

srkudai

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Bhagavad Gita
« on: March 07, 2009, 05:43:38 AM »
Hi Friends,
             Let us study Bhagavad gita. I'll start presenting the teaching of sri Krishna from 2.11 verse. This is the verse with which sri Adi Sankaracharya started giving commentary. A prelude to the subject shall precede the actual discussion on the verses.

Love!
Silence

vinita

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2009, 09:04:17 AM »
well said, srkudai! so long as i am not revealed the search for the 10th man will continue. how i search is also important, with what intensity, with what level of awareness, with what technique(?)!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2009, 09:22:43 AM »
Bhagavad Gita speaks about all the three margas.  But Jnanamarga
is the supreme.  Krishna says:  Jnanis are the most dear to me.
He also says: Leave all the dharmas and surrender to me, I shall
take care of your welfare.  Bhagavan Ramana has also said: Jnana Vichara and surrender are one and the same.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2009, 10:30:21 AM »
Dear Srkudai,

Its a nice post and good explanations. I have read somewhere these words of Bhagawan - first the Self sees itself as objects, then it sees itself as void, then finally it sees itself as Self - here there is no seeing as seeing is becoming.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 02:24:35 PM »
Arjuna's mental turmoil is itself a Yoga.  "Why should I do this;
or that?  Why should I kill my kith and king?  What use?  Let me
go to the jungles.  But why should Duryodhana give us misery?
What about Draupadi's swearing that she would apply the
blood of Duryodhana and then only pleat her hairs?"  This was
the mental churning, which everyone of us go through, before we
start nishkamya karma, devotion/surrender, raja yoga and then
self enquiry.  Hence Arjuna's Vishadham is also a Yoga.  This churning
settles down with the start of one of the four margas to reach the
Self which is Peace.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 04:09:50 PM »
Dear srkudai,

Yes. Bhagavan willing, I shall do that.  After taking the Verse ii.1,
which Bhagavan takes as an introductory verse,  He picks up ii.16.
This is the nineth verse in His arrangement in Bhagavad Gita Sara.
He has also commented on certain other verses, other than the 42,
whenever some devotees asked Him for clarification.  I shall pick
up His various Talks and conversations and post them, when you take them up.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 10:05:18 AM »
Dear srkudai,

Yes.  One is wearing a variety of shirts and trousers, some green,
some yellow, some red and some white.  But the 'wearer' is the
changeless person.  One is applying rouge for adornment. Everyday,
in different cosmetics, but the 'face' is the same.  The Self within
is unchanging Presence.  The 'tongue' is the same.  But tastes are
different, some sweet, some bitter, some alkaline. 
 
                                              - Sri Sadhu Om.

Arunachala Siva. 

Matthew

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 10:06:48 AM »
Srkudai, could you please explain the following a bit more -- I don't think I'm understanding:

"Arjuna spoke like a wise man when he said "i do not care for kingdom etc" ... A typical example to this kind of argument is seen in the case of Papaji. When Bhagavan asked him to go to punjab and take care of his family, Papaji said: "This is all a dream, why go?" and Ramana said: "if it is all a dream, why not go?""

Quote
Verse 2:11
Sri Bhagavan uvacha
aśocyān anvaśocas tvaḿ
praj├▒ā-vādāḿś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūḿś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

aśocyān ---That which is not an "object" for grief
anvaśocas tvam-- you are lamenting
prajna-vadan ca bhasase: talk like a wise man
gatasuna - that which is gone
agatasuna ca - that which is not gone
nanusocanti - does not bother about
panditah - the wise

You worry about what is not to be worried about and talk the language of a wise man. The wise do not worry about that which is gone or that which is not gone.

This is the "logical" starting point of the teaching. The whole of 1st chapter and uptil 2.10, Arjuna was explaining his grief. He was trying to say that his grief was a "valid" grief. And Sri Krishna here dismisses it as invalid. Arjuna spoke like a wise man when he said "i do not care for kingdom etc" ... A typical example to this kind of argument is seen in the case of Papaji. When Bhagavan asked him to go to punjab and take care of his family, Papaji said: "This is all a dream, why go?" and Ramana said: "if it is all a dream, why not go?"
Please see.
It is true that Renunciation is important. But at the same time it is to be understood that renunciation is not leaving things and going to forest. In Arjuna's case, true wisdom was in Renuncing his attachment to his kinsmen. Sri Krishna does explain later on that True Renunciation is not really leaving the world.
Suppose i am in a tough situtation, i would find it very nice to leave the situtation --- as it is avoiding it. I might even colour it by thinking to myself that it is renunciation. This is exatly what Arjuna was doing.
Arjuna was a trained warrior whose job was to protect the people. The fight itself was for the people and not for himself. It is more important coz Duryodhana was an unjust king while Dharmaraja was a truely dharmic king. So it was Arjuna's duty. If it were not Bishma or Dhrona in the opposition, Arjuna would have fought without any worries. But now when he faces these people whom he reveared a lot, he was put in a testing situtation. it is always easy to escape a testing situtation and explain it away with some wise words.
Sri Krishna is not allowing it here.

We all do such sort of things. We explain away our weaknesses using wise words. Inwardly i know i am doing something coz of my weakness but not liking to see it, i make it look as if it is normal. I am an angry man say, and when someone questions: 'u speak so much religion, why do u get so easily irritated', i try to explain it by saying that i am not angry, but just showing anger! think of that. That is fanaticism.

Or suppose i am attached to money and a greedy person ... and i try to explain away my non-charity attitude by saying that religious does not really mean giving money in charity... that has nothing to do with religious living... and then support my claim with various examples.. that is fanaticism.

One needs to be truthful. Weaknesses are weaknesses. Errors are errors. One needs to have real courage to accept this. In Krishna's silent presence, Arjuna could see that he was making a mistake. so he sought help. And Sri Krishna teaches him the Truth and leaves him to do what he thinks right. Suppose krishna just tells him to fight, in another situtation he will again remain indeterminate about what is right thing to do and what is not. So Sri Krishna explains the fundamentals... and conveys the vision of Truth which underlies everything ... and once Arjuna has it, he would be able to decide what is right and what is wrong for himself.

Love!
Silence

Matthew

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Re: Bhagavad Gita
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 10:33:40 AM »
Dear Matthew,
            :)

I do not care for the kingdom etc seems like a wise man's talk. Renunciation is not "not involving in activities" . People generally fall into this trap. They think, not involving in the activities of the world is renunciation and involving in the activities is living attached life.
Krishna explains later that by merely not involving in the worldly activities one does not become a renunciate. A renunciate is one who is Blissful no matter in what situtation the life puts him in. He is Blissful in a party as much as in a religious meet. He is absolutely comfortable with himself ... so no matter where one places him, he is every Blissful. The acceptance of external circumstances is so complete . That is true Renunciation.

Arjuna could not fight his elders. Due to his attachment he wanted to not fight ... and the argument sounded as if he was a renunciate. Renunciation is not an external activity... there is nothing like a wise man's life style ... be wise and then any lifestyle cannot alter the state of bliss within.

Love!
Silence

Thank you for the elaboration.  What you said makes sense and was within the realm of what I already understood. 

I got confused when you mentioned Papaji.  Were you suggesting that Papaji did not truly renunciate?

I find the whole subject of Papaji confusing, because it seems like in his case he became "realized" at a young age (6?) but didn't know it or recognize it as such.  Whereas when I hear Ramana and Nisargadatta talk, they make it sound like "realization" removes all doubts.  I am grateful for all of them though, and you good people.