Author Topic: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3  (Read 11051 times)

Subramanian.R

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How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« on: March 06, 2009, 10:15:51 AM »
Padamalai verses of Muruganar say:

Verse 2328:  The wonderful meaning of the one supreme word,
(Summa Iru) is to know and rest in the Atma Swarupa through
the enquiry of 'Who am I?'

Verse 2114: Except by remaining still (Summa Iruttal), by what
great 'tapas', can the Atma-Swarupa be attained in the Heart?

Verse 2261:  It will be impossible to merge with the feet of Lord
Sonachala, (Annamalai), unless one remains still, with the mind
competely annihilated.

Verse 1217:  Since becoming established in the state of the Self is
both the means and the goal to be attained, remain still.

Talks No. 322 runs like this:

Question:  What should one do in order to remain free from thoughts
as advised by you?  Is it only the enquiry 'Who am I?'

Bhagavan:  Only to remain still.  Do it and see.

Question:  It is impossible.

Bhagavan: Exactly. For the same reason, the enquiry, "Who am I?"
is advised.

In Day by Day, entry dated 11th Jan 1946, Bhagavan says:

All the age long Vasanas carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward.  For that, effort is necessary for most people.  Of course, everybody, every book says: Summa Iru.  i.e  'Be quiet or still.'  But it is not easy.  That is why all this effort is necessary. Even if we find one has at once achieved the 'mauna' or supreme state indicated by 'Summa Iru', you may take it that effort has already been finished in a previous life.

(Source: Padamalai, Muruganar, Tr. and commented by David Godman and others.)

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 11:47:49 AM »
Dear srkudai,

Yes, staying in Consciousness and doing work.  Like the girls holding
the pillar and going round and round very fast.  SRK said God and
Ramana said Consciousness.  It is doing without doing, acting without acting and sleeping without sleeping, as Tayumanavar
said.

Arunachala Siva.


DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 11:56:05 AM »
As Srk Udai says when mind and body are dynamic during action we must be aware of static nature

of consciousness and that is the main aim of spiritual desciplines.This can happen if we are completely

lost in any activity which is so deep that there is no doer there.Doing can be relaxing when awareness

starts penetrating the action because nature of awareness is relaxation.
pvssnraju

matthias

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 01:00:09 PM »
dear skrudai
this is a good last statement, when I work long and alot I can always keep my happiness and humor, even when my body just wants sleep and my mind is scattered in the whole universe...still my inner sense is with me and this makes me happy....

but at the same time Iam totally exahusted mentaly and physically, and I do not see it as an illusion and it leaves me cold...I have my humor and Iam not "so" attached to my state, but Iam attached...


Subramanian.R

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 03:07:43 PM »
Dear matthias and srkudai,

Bhagavan Ramana goes one step further and says:  It is not the body but the mind wants/needs sleep.  Body when tired needs only rest
and need not necessarily be sleep.  But the monkey of the mind needs sleep.  There will be some days, when you are lying in bed for hours, and the body gets all the rest, but since your mind is churning with thoughts, you do not get sleep.  The mind needs sleep, because only in sleep, (or in fainting or in samadhi), the mind gets curled up.

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 06:39:30 PM »
Bad vasanas impel actions also good vasanas impel actions.

"Summa Iru" is neither this nor that.

Nagaraj


॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2009, 09:19:29 AM »
Yes.  Bhagavan Ramana has said:  The mind is only one.  But the
Vasanas are twofold, subha and asubha, good and bad.  Both need
to be cleared up.  Bhagavan Ramana has also said: Simple Vasanas like eating food, drinking water/coffee, attending to nature calls,
and sleep, are harmless and they do not implant further Vasanas.
SRK used to say: Take a thorn and with it dig out the thorn on your
sole, and then throw both the thorns.  Bhagavan Ramana has also said: With one thought, like Who am I? or a mantra, I am Siva,
remove all the other thoughts.  Then this thought would also vanish oneday, like the stick that is used to stir the burning pyre, gets also burnt after the burning is complete.

Arunachala Siva.   

vinita

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2009, 09:47:41 AM »
is there not a difference between action performed as a result of vasana and action performed as karma?

Subramanian.R

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2009, 11:05:19 AM »
Dear vinita,

Are karmas sprout from Vasanas.  Good Vasanas produce good
karmas.  Bad Vasanas produce bad karmas.  One man builds
a Siva temple or dig a well for water supply to others.  The other
places a bomb in the temple, or inside the well.  Even when
there were no Vasanas, Jnanis were doing karmas, routine ones
for living, like eating and drinking or something for the sake of others.  Like Sankara wrote Vivekachoodamani and Bhagavan
wrote Upadesa Saram.  These Vasanas do not implant from Vasanas.

Arunachala Siva.

vinita

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2009, 11:14:30 AM »
so maybe karma performed without any desire for "result"/"fruit" is neither borne from good vasana nor bad vasana..........?

such karma where there is no vasana does not create further vasna/karma (in a karmic sense)....and therefore is liberating........?

Nagaraj

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2009, 11:27:18 AM »
Yes,

Karmas performed by you without any desires are spontaneous. You will not have any Reminiscences of your actions performed, such actions are  pure. Like you may have pulled up 10 buckets of water from the well in the morning, you may even not remember it, you never felt tired, irritating etc...it was simply pure spontaneous action. Usually such morning chores are pure actions!

Your preparation for exam - studying for hours together are pure actions. when you realize you would have studied for 5 hours and dint even realize that so much time had passed.

Any action which leaves Reminiscences in your mind is Vasana bound.

Nagaraj

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2009, 07:44:16 PM »
Dear Srkudai,

Its a valid question you have posted. I feel, after a certain point, that illusion 'You' 'I' cannot do anything. As it is this false 'I' that is binding 'you', it will get destroyed by its self. Like Bhagawan says Who am I thought will destroy every thoughts and finally will destroy itself too.

When such thug of war is going on within, there is a thug of war going on in me as well. Sometimes I feel like crying off thinking Bhagawan, his form, his eyes, his smile, his love... I begin to long for Bhagawan. At a certain point of the Thug of war within, this illusion 'I' has no option but to surrender to Bhagawan. More observation, intellectualization will be of avail to this illusion 'I' This point it will know by default, it cant do anything, simply not in its hands. It has to just wait. It will begin to bear this thug of war within, no matter how strong the thug of war is within, it simply has to but be bearing its own illusion 'self' from here the innermost prayer of the 'I' the illusion will ask Bhagawan to take itself to Bhagawan or be destroyed by Bhagawan (Pure Self) this 'I' would want to give away its life, it will even be ready to give up its life but still it knows not how to give up its life, it cannot commit suicide nor expect anybody to get itself killed -

the illusion 'Self' to be sucked by its own pure Self. There is a quote in some upanishad - He whom the Self chooses, by him the Self is revealed

When you said in your post:

"his hands got interlocked and are holding the tree! so he needs to see how he can leave the hold... rather leave the hold and see!"

He can never see how he can leave the hold. When he begins to try and do whatever, at some point, the thug of war will start anyhow. It cant do anything, it has to die! This 'I' can never win!

What to do? the illusion 'I' has just got to be. It cant just do a thing!

Nagaraj








« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 07:59:49 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2009, 07:56:47 PM »
I would like to add my two cents respectfully.....

There is no short cut to overcome the vasanas. The karma has to be worked out. But for the one who "realizes" that the vasanas are not of him but are of the body, he will simply ignore them. It is one thing to "know" that this is how they can be ignored. It is totally another to be able to do that, that is to watch the vasanas as they come and do nothing about them. As one starts practising it many times , over and over again, the intensity of the vasanas gets reduced and the technique of ignoring them becomes second nature.  Everyone is headed towards that eventual goal. Some are in the front compartments, some in the later ones.  Another easy approach is to be associated with good things - thoughts, people, deeds etc. Satsang has the effect of imparting good thoughts and can lead to good deeds.  This is the first step followed by non attachment when one overcomes thoughts altogether - good or bad.

It is not easy but once you realize the truth it is all a dream.



Nagaraj

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2009, 08:56:02 PM »
Dear Ramana,

Here it has to be noted that the one who tries to work out his Karma is the illusion 'I' not the Pure Self.
One who realizes that vasanas are not him but are the of the body is truly a 'Jnani'

My point is that its this false 'I' that tries and practices over and over again to just watch the vasanas and not do anything. Even to watch your vasanas and not do anything about it is also to do something - To try to not do anything about it! It only appears to the same 'false I' that the intensity of the vasanas are getting reduced!

Important point to note here is that there are no levels to vasanas. either you have vasanas or you dont have vasanas. There is no increase or decrease in vasanas. The 'false I' just relishes in this increase and decrease games of vasanas. the waves will never end. if it increases it will try to decrease it, if it decreases, it will further try to decrease it!

This is the whole agenda of the 'false I' it wants to keep going. It never wants to keep quiet. This very act itself is being impeled by vasanas!

Nagaraj
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 09:02:44 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: How to get rid of Vasanas etc.,? - 3
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2009, 11:10:54 PM »
I understand that Its a paradoxical statements made in my previous posts, I happened to find Bhagawans reply here for the same question that I have raised:

A visitor asked “If the ego or ‘I’ be an illusion who then
casts off the illusion?”

Bhagawan said the ‘I’ casts off the illusion of ‘I’ and yet remains as ‘I’.
This appears to be a paradox to you: it is not so to the
Jnani. Take the case of the bhakta. His ‘I’ prays to the
Lord to unite it with Him, which is its surrender. What
remains as residuum after this surrender, is the eternal
‘I’, which is God the Absolute, Paramatman Himself.
What has happened to the ‘I’, which originally prayed?
Being unreal, it simply vanished.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta