Author Topic: Why do i not realize the Truth ?  (Read 34728 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2009, 06:34:50 PM »
This discussion here is a cinema. When the discussion - Cinema ends, you will know your Self. This discussion is all nothing but the character 'You' its all not yours really.

Just a prayer - May Bhagawan guide everyone.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2009, 06:52:35 PM »
I am with you in all the points you conveyed. but I have some points

one who sees a rope as a rope need not be taught.
one who sees a snake ... he has to be shown that it is a rope.
The vasanas are not there but appear as if present ... so one needs to face them and see that they are not there in Reality. That is sadhana.

Being taught or to be shown that it is rope and not a snake is also the same 'Self' There is nobody apart from you to show you that it is rope. someone else showing the rope again amounts to watching a movie.  It is just like watching, reading Ramana being realized

To whom does the rope appear like snake? We now have now come to understand that only rope 'you' 'Self' exists. If something else exist apart from Rope, then thats is unreal like the cinema. Only if there is something apart from the rope then only one can confirm that the snake is rope.

Is somebody there watching this rope? then this rope should be unreal like cinema.

The Rope but is. nothing else.

Nagaraj
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 06:54:06 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2009, 07:15:24 PM »
Just one more point...

I am not there, I am cinema for you. you are cinema for me. I am You, You am I.

I have written before in one of my posts thus -

"When you just posted your response. I read your post. what ever you have conveyed in your post and my response to this post is my own response to my own (your) post.

When you now read my post as a response, if you have any response to it, it is your response to your own (my) post?

do you get it? I find it difficult to write it out!

Upanishads say Self is everywhere. when you read this, you are here and you are reading this, and you understand it. and if there is a question in this post, its your own question which is already there in you. and if you are responding to that question, its your own answer to your own question.

I am You. You am I

"


The entire exercise of sadhana is only the period watching the movie. Sadhana is the cinema character 'you' If action is spontaneous, then it does not matter if it is a Sadhana for 'you' 'Self'. It will not see it as a Sadhana for it is spontaneous

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

S.Subramanian

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2009, 09:48:32 PM »
Dear Shri Nagaraj,

     I do not realize that I am you.  Do you realize that you are me?

     
     Seeking your blessings and guidance,


     S.Subramanian.


Nagaraj

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2009, 10:39:09 AM »
Dear Srkudai,

I understand what you are saying. But eventually you will see it yourself -

Its True. Please see. I see a snake in a rope. - Seeing is possible if there are 2, i.e. seer and seen, So the snake here is movie. You will soon see that the snake and rope is but you ItSelf
I tell a friend about it ... he says: Pick this stick and kill it. - This all is happening in the movie
i take the stick but am still shivering from fear. - This is the character in the movie

The character is not different from you. you are that, that is you.

When you say you see snake, you dont see snake, Its you itself, There is nothing there. Its like you are the character (snake) and rope (You - Seer)

The Seer is Rope and the Seen is Snake - Is there 2 here? there is only one.

Both Rope and Snake is One.

When you see snake, the rope is only seeing! nothing else...

This topic is very difficult to discuss through language. :)

Nagraj


॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2009, 10:42:11 AM »
Dear S.Subramanian

I dont know if it is a joke. But I am not fit for your message if it is real. Only Bhagawan can bless anyone or give guidance. I am a mere humble human being just like you. Please don't elevate me to such a position. I see it only as a joke and hope it is :)

Nagaraj
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 10:53:54 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

I

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2009, 10:47:19 AM »
hi,

its a very beautiful discussion.
i would like to add a few points here.

"I had read all sorts of things about the mirage, but had never seen it before until about four years ago when I was travelling in western India. Of course, as a Sannyasin I was travelling on foot, making my slow marches. So it took me about a month to travel through that country. Every day I saw such beautiful lakes and the shadows of trees on the shores of those lakes, and the whole thing was quivering in the breeze — and birds flying, and animals. Every day I saw this and thought what a beautiful country it was. But when I reached some village, I found it was all sand. I said, How is it?

One day I was very thirsty and thought I would drink a little water at the lake. But when I approached, it disappeared, and with a flash [the thought] came into my mind: "This is the mirage about which I read all my life". But the strange thing is that I was travelling for a month and could never recognize that it was a mirage — and in one moment it vanished. I was very glad to know this was the mirage about which I had read all my life.

Next morning I saw the lake again, and along with it came the idea: "That is the mirage". All that month I had been seeing the mirage and could not distinguish between reality and mirage. But in that one moment I caught the idea.

From that time, when I see a mirage, I will say, "That is a mirage", and never feel it. Such will it be with this world when the whole thing will vanish once; and after that, if you have to live out your past work, you will not be deceived."

swami vivekananda
 Home  / Complete-Works / Volume 9 / Lectures and Discourses /the mundaka upanishad

as sri ramakrishna says once a salt doll went to measure the ocean and it never returned.
that individuality of the salt doll is gone, destroyed and it becomes non-different from the ocean.
so thats what we are trying to achieve by removal of vasanas.

that little individuality is the ego with the 'I' thought.that we have to remove from vichara.
by enquiring who is this I?

om arunachala
Varun

Nagaraj

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2009, 10:52:03 AM »
Dear Srkudai

:) Thats it.

Nagaraj
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Why do i not realize the Truth ?
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2009, 11:29:52 AM »
Dear srkudai, Nagaraj, S. Subramanian, I,

Interesting disucssions.  But there won't be any end to this.
We are using different terms in English, Tamil, Sanskrit, different
similes, snake/rope, mirage/water etc.,  Incidentally, the similes
of snake/rope, mirage/water are not identical.  Bhagavan Ramana
has explained this in Talks.  The snake once found out as a rope, gives no more delusion.  But the mirage, whenever we travel in the
hot asphalted road in a car, under hot sun, still appears as water, everyday and in every trip!  Sankara has made this distinction in his works. Bhagavan Ramana has also mentioned about this, in Talks.

I am reading Guru Vachaka Kovai, where all the teachings of Bhagavan Ramana have been recorded by Muruganar, and the
veracity and even the metrical rendering of the verses have been
verified by Bhagavan Ramana and corrected whenever necessary. His own verses have also been added to. David Godman and Ors.
have added  additional  inputs like giving Bhagavan's oral clarifications on the subject for the sake of devotees present on a partiular day in the Old Hall.  I think a final view would emerge only when one reads GVK verses connected with Vasanas.  There are 30 such reference in GVK.   Many more may be there in Murugnar's Padamalai also.

Arunachala Siva.